Show transcription
[00:00:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What's up Jeff? How's it going?
[00:00:13] Jeff Chang: I'm doing good. How are you, Scott?
[00:00:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I'm doing well. before, before we, Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. This is what happens. before we kick things off with our Go-to questions on the show, I have one that is, you've probably been asked this a thousand billion times.
[00:00:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: the apartment photo.
[00:00:32] Jeff Chang: I was like, who are you and what are you doing in my house?
[00:00:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. What's the story? behind the apartment photo as the brand name?
[00:00:41] Jeff Chang: as the name,
[00:00:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:00:43] Jeff Chang: Yeah. So, I met my now wife Cat in college. And, we were sitting together in art class and, we locked eyes. No, I wasn't that romantic. I was like, Hey, what's up?that year I actually started a wedding photography business and I named it after [00:01:00] myself, Jeff Chang Photography.
[00:01:02] Jeff Chang: And it stayed that way for a number of years. But, the thing is, Cat and I ended up working together right off the bat. I actually invited her to my first wedding as both like a, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing. I was a photographer. I took lots of photos, but I had never been to a actual wedding before.
[00:01:19] Jeff Chang: Never, shot a wedding before. And so I thought like, oh, this would be fun. I'll invite Cat to come along. It'll be like a fun date idea. you know, there's free food and wine, there's dancing. Like, it's a great date, right? and you don't have to pay for anything. It's wonderful.
[00:01:32] Jeff Chang: but,having her there to support me and to also be taking photos, like it was an amazing experience. So we both kind of fell in love with working together and the idea of just having this experience together and sharing it. So it went really, really well.few years go by and we end up moving into our first place together.
[00:01:54] Jeff Chang: Of course, it was an apartment if that wasn't obvious. [00:02:00] And, we were like, you know, we should really think about rebranding because we've been kind of working under Jeff Chang photography. We even changed it at Jeff Chang photographers, and we're like, oh yeah, that, that'll make it clear. but the reality was that Cat and I were partners 50 50, and it wasn't, it just wasn't doing us and our brand any justice, having it be called Jeff Chang photography.
[00:02:21] Jeff Chang: So we thought of a thousand different names. It was kind of that era where people were putting like, you know, sticks and stones, photography, green and blush photography. We're like, oh, okay, we're two, we're two people, so we should have, you know, a cool Emper sign logo with two random things. And we came up with so many combos and they were all like, so bad.
[00:02:41] Jeff Chang: Thank goodness we didn't actually go through with that. Anyway, so we bought, our first place together. we're moving in, we're setting it up. up until that point we were having all of our client meetings in person, so we, you know, it's like we're just a local photography business. People would come over and, and hang out in our apartment, and so we would, [00:03:00] we wanted to set up the space that was, you know, cozy for them, cozy for us, nice place to work, nice place to live.
[00:03:07] Jeff Chang: Everything revolved around the apartment, and we always caught ourselves saying like, oh, the apartment, the apartment, the apartment. And it stuck. And we kind of thought, Hey, actually that's not a bad name. let's call ourselves the apartment. Well, fast forward to the point where we're like rebranded.
[00:03:23] Jeff Chang: We've got a logo, we've got a website, and I'm so proud. I tell my parents, I'm like, mom, dad, like, I have a new company with Cat. We're called the apartment. And I'm thinking they're gonna be like, wow, what a great name. Like, you know, congrats. Good for you guys. And my mom just sits there and she's like, thinking about it.
[00:03:41] Jeff Chang: She's like, Hmm, honestly, it sounds a little cheap. And I was like, what? She's like, yeah, why aren't you guys like the penthouse or the mansion or the, you know, the big house on the corner lot. And I'm like, because we don't live in a mansion, mom. Like, we live in an apartment. Like, I don't know if you connected the [00:04:00] dots.
[00:04:00] Jeff Chang: and also the penthouse is a porn magazine. So I, you know, I really don't think we want to be associated with that.
[00:04:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: No.
[00:04:06] Jeff Chang: Anyways. So that, that's the long story short of,how we came about to name ourselves the apartment.
[00:04:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I think there's a valuable lesson in there for everybody who's listening, the fact that, you know, when we. first create our businesses and we're trying to think of a brand name for the business. we wanna make it extremely personal, you know, especially as a solo. and then once you add more people into it, it gets a little more complicated and make it personal, of course.
[00:04:28] Jeff Chang: But you guys found a way to make it personal without making it personal, right? It's not about the two of you, but at the same time it is about the two of you. That's so
[00:04:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and yeah, so it's a, it was a, it's definitely a clever way and it definitely stands out, among all of the other names for, for, you know, duo,
[00:04:47] Jeff Chang: there's a sticks and stones photography out there, I'm so sorry. I just put you on blast.
[00:04:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. alright. I love that backstory and, I believe I even heard a little bit of that, while we were together in Las Vegas, but, I [00:05:00] wanted to make sure that all the listeners also
[00:05:03] Jeff Chang: Knew the story.
[00:05:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Okay. So the first question that I typically ask every guest is,
[00:05:09] What is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time?
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[00:05:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing you do for the photographic process behind the camera that saves you time?
[00:05:16] Jeff Chang: hmm. The photographic process
[00:05:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-Hmm
[00:05:19] Jeff Chang: that saves me time. So many things, so many things running through my head.I definitely love processes and I love things that make my life more efficient. I think I might be the only person on the face of this earth that still takes a checklist to a wedding. not for poses or shots, but actually for equipment.
[00:05:40] Jeff Chang: It's probably comes from a fear of leaving things behind, or not bringing things like my, my worst nightmare is showing up to a wedding and going, I forgot the batteries, or I forgot, you know, memory cards or something like that.
[00:05:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And you're saying a physical checklist.
[00:05:54] Jeff Chang: Oh, yeah. Like, it's like a printed out. And I get, I have friends who are like, you have a printer?
[00:05:59] Jeff Chang: I'm [00:06:00] like, yeah, I have a printer. I like prints on paper and I have a pen. And the night before a wedding, this is how I go to bed, Cape, the night before a wedding, I get my checklist and I mark off, I go, okay, I got my cannon, I got my five d, I got my flashes, I got my batteries. And I go through da dah da, and I literally check it off the list and I put it into my little cart or put it into a bag, and then I know it's there.
[00:06:24] Jeff Chang: And then I fold up my, my little checklist, put it in my bag. I can go to bed knowing I have everything, and I can wake up in the morning and go and not have that feeling of like, I think I left something behind because I've done this checklist, right? And then at a wedding, I do it on the way out as well.
[00:06:39] Jeff Chang: And it has actually saved me tons of times. Like, I'll, I'll think I have everything, right? You're looking, you're like, yeah, okay, every hole is full. And then you'll realize that you've got a battery and a charger plugged in somewhere in the reception, right? And so that's, that's part of it. and then, I don't know if this saves me time, if this is just purely paranoia, but, I've [00:07:00] had like memory cards.
[00:07:01] Jeff Chang: You load them and then like the numbers don't match. You know, you're on your computer and you're like, okay, I've got a total of 7,000 photos, but like, it doesn't add up to the first time I loaded them or whatever. Anyway, so same thing. I now add this extra step where at the end of the wedding, when I'm putting my camera away, I'll look at how many photos I've taken onto the body.
[00:07:20] Jeff Chang: And I'll just write it down next to the body name on my checklist. And then when I get home and actually load them on and they start going to different hard drives and that kind of stuff,I could just double check the number as they go. And I just kind of like peace of mind because I have on one occasion loaded the wrong card.
[00:07:37] Jeff Chang: Like I had my little portfolio of SD cards and I, it must've been so late and must've been so tired 'cause I plugged in a different memory card than the one from the wedding. And I loaded it and I was like, okay, great. Thumbs up. Like, the photos are all loaded. I even got it backed up onto an offsite drive, had it going up to the cloud.
[00:07:55] Jeff Chang: I'm like, this is great. I had the wrong wedding, backed up in three different places,
[00:07:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:08:00] Oh boy.
[00:08:00] Jeff Chang: oh boy. Yeah, and it wasn't until the very next day that I happened to look at the numbers and I was like, that's so weird. The night before this camera took whatever, like 2,700 photos, and yet the card that was loaded only had 2,500 photos, and they were so close, but
[00:08:16] Jeff Chang: It was literally a completely different wedding,
[00:08:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. You are the first person to ever say something like that. I think that's so interesting.
[00:08:23] Jeff Chang: the first person to ever admit.
[00:08:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. It's so interesting. I am sure that there's a lot of people that are doing that, that have not it. So if you're listening to this and you also log your photo count before and after,a job, go to the Imagen community and confess.
[00:08:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: 'cause I want to know,
[00:08:43] Jeff Chang: Now. Confess and we will forgive you for your sins,
[00:08:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: All your sin are forgiven. oh, that's funny. yeah, that's great. the checklist thing of, you know, for the night before and then when the wedding is over is very smart. It's very smart to do that. I [00:09:00] have made the mistake of after. You know, I make a checklist beforehand.
[00:09:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I never make a checklist or have the same checklist for after the job is done. But I did a very large charity family portrait event, and I had a bunch of photographers helping. And, I left. It's so stupid, you know, the little Frio, like the cold shoe,
[00:09:22] Jeff Chang: okay?
[00:09:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: like a little speed light, but it goes on a light stand.
[00:09:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So I love this little Frio thing. you
[00:09:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: know, it's a $20 piece of plastic, but it was perfect
[00:09:32] Jeff Chang: Yeah.
[00:09:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and I left it at the venue where this was
[00:09:36] Jeff Chang: All by itself.
[00:09:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: all just that one thing never came home and I was so sad.
[00:09:42] Jeff Chang: I think the one thing I've left behind, and to this day I've still not found it, is a soft box. Like the whole soft box. Like it was wrapped up in its little bag and it wasn't on the checklist. It is now. I had to buy another one. and that is an expensive piece of kit that [00:10:00] like more expensive than it should be really,
[00:10:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: The problem with soft boxes is they're always black, which, you know, makes sense for light, but at the same time, it blends in with like handbags and coats and stuff. So if it's on the floor or leaning up with, Yeah. So, yeah, that stinks.
[00:10:18] Jeff Chang: And it's always like you're packing up in the dark, right? It's always the dance party by the time you're leaving and it's like pitch black, which is why I actually carry a flashlight with me as well. God, I sound so nerdy. Like I bring a checklist to a wedding and a flashlight, I'm gonna get made fun of so bad.
[00:10:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: No, you're not. this is what this is about. This is about the little
[00:10:34] Jeff Chang: Anyone else
[00:10:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: don't normally think about.
[00:10:36] Jeff Chang: No. They're like, this is the thing though. Like everyone else is like, don't you have a phone? Can't you put a checklist on your phone? Doesn't your phone have a flashlight? I'm like, yes, these are all true. But I think there are some certain aspects of,like real physical things that just make a difference, right?
[00:10:52] Jeff Chang: It's like, yeah, you have a phone, you can have an entire album of wedding photos on a phone, but we're all purveyors of, or you know, we all believe in printed [00:11:00] products and having photos in your hands. So in the same way,a checklist in real life is, I don't know, it's helpful to me.
[00:11:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. I agree. I love it. okay, let's move into the business side of things for a
[00:11:11] Jeff Chang: Hmm.
[00:11:11] What is one thing that you do for the business that saves you time or money?
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[00:11:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing you do for the business that saves you time or money?
[00:11:16] Jeff Chang: something that saves me time or money. Oh man, saving money. I don't know if I, if I do a lot of things that save money, to be honest, I, I definitely take good care of my equipment. You know, sometimes people, you look at their cameras and they're silver, but they didn't start silver. Have you ever seen that before?
[00:11:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, yeah, yeah,
[00:11:35] Jeff Chang: oh. I was like, oh, are you going for that? Like, vintage rangefinder look on your SLR, like, no.
[00:11:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I love the direction you just went with this, because typically when I ask this question, nobody talks about their camera gear. So I love that you went this direction because It is true.
[00:11:50] Jeff Chang: I, it's not that like I'm walking around going, Ooh, I can sell this camera for 50% of its value one day. That's not what I'm thinking. But I do just take care of my gear [00:12:00] and I know that it does retain value. Like every time I buy a new camera, I don't think, oh, this is a $3,000 camera.
[00:12:06] Jeff Chang: I actually think it's gonna cost me $1,500 in rent for the next two or three years. And then I'm gonna sell it for 1500 bucks and you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's kind of how I look at it. I'm leasing this camera
[00:12:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: but also like, if you're shooting a wedding that's on the beach, for example, right now, you got sand and if you're not protecting your equipment and cleaning it properly afterwards, now your very expensive camera and lens are gonna last far less. Yes. Most pro cameras and lenses have weather sealing.
[00:12:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: not all of them, but,sand is going to destroy it. Salty air is going to, you know, destroy it. So the more you can protect and clean and, you know, maintain it.
[00:12:44] Jeff Chang: Yeah.
[00:12:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Your investment in that camera and that lens is going to far extend what it would otherwise.
[00:12:51] Jeff Chang: Yeah. It's, I mean, it's like a car, right? Like if you are,a cab driver, then like your most expensive piece of equipment is your car. And [00:13:00] the longer your car goes without needing major repair or replacement, then you're just dividing it up, right? Like, if I can shoot a hundred weddings on one camera versus 200, well that's a big difference, right?
[00:13:12] Jeff Chang: I don't know if those numbers add up. I'm like, Hmm, 200 weddings. It seems like a lot actually. But you get what I'm saying, right? So I think definitely taking care of my gear is one way that I can save money for the business, and get new gear when it's appropriate or when it makes sense. time.
[00:13:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It doesn't have to be time. It could just be the money aspect.
[00:13:30] Jeff Chang: give you, it's great. We'll stick with that answer.
[00:13:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. All right. moving to editing and. Let's leave Imagen off the table for a moment 'cause we're gonna get to Imagen,
[00:13:40] What is one thing that you do for editing that has saved you time?
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[00:13:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing you do for the editing side of things that saves you time?
[00:13:46] Jeff Chang: I love prepping, so I kind of. I really love metaphors or analogies. And I, I look at editing a lot, like, making a meal. So [00:14:00] you can either go out and buy a carrot, wash the carrot, peel the carrot, chop the carrot, boil the carrot, I dunno, mush it up and make a nice, I dunno, carrot mash. It's like, everyone's like, whoa.
[00:14:15] Jeff Chang: Who's eating carrot mash?
[00:14:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Jeff
[00:14:18] Jeff Chang: needed to add
[00:14:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: mash, everybody.
[00:14:19] Jeff Chang: like, puree your carrots. I don't know. And then here me out. Here we out. Then you go. Okay. Okay. We'll make, we'll just chop the carrots and boil the carrots. Period. and then you can go out and buy a potato. Right? Come home, wash a potato.
[00:14:33] Jeff Chang: Peel the potato, chop the potatoes. Boil the potatoes, and then we'll mash the potatoes. Okay, here we go. We eat carrot mash in Canada. No, we don't, try to play it off as a cultural thing. It's not, So that's great. you've got your chopped up carrots, your boiled carrots, and you've got your mashed potatoes, your golden.
[00:14:49] Jeff Chang: Now is that the most efficient way of cooking a meal? No. Nobody would do that. Right? It's like you go buy everything at the same time. You come home, you wash all your ingredients first you chop up your [00:15:00] carrots, you chop up your potatoes, you get them all prepared, and then you boil them all at the same time.
[00:15:04] Jeff Chang: Right? Like that makes sense. I think in the same way, it's how I look at editing. So I do a lot of prep work, because Cat and I shoot together. We each have two cameras that's four bodies, four lenses running simultaneously. So for me, the idea of editing once, you know, once we've called down the images, the idea of just editing one photo at a time and jumping between my angle or perspective to Catz back to like my secondary body to her second body back to me, like, that's wild.
[00:15:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-Hmm.
[00:15:33] Jeff Chang: I couldn't possibly do that. Now you could say, well, okay, why don't you just like sort by camera and edit. Well, there's a certain amount of consistency that I want, I want the look unlike Imagen I'm a human and I'm going to make mistakes and I'm going to see things a certain way on one day, see them a little bit different the other day.
[00:15:51] Jeff Chang: I'm not a robot, right? So having everything together is helpful, but what I do like to do is something I like to call sort by color [00:16:00] or sort by light source. So say we're doing getting ready photos and we're in a hotel room and we've taken some photos just in the room while people are having their hair and makeup done,and they're being affected by the ambient light in the room.
[00:16:14] Jeff Chang: Maybe after,the bride's dress is on, we took a few portraits,by a window, and then we went out on the balcony and took a few photos in the sun. So all of those photos are all mixed up right now, and what I'll do is. My camera. Her camera, I'll put 'em all together. But I will sort and say, okay, all the photos of the bridesmaids or the wedding party, I'm gonna put them all in one little spot and I'll color coat them.
[00:16:38] Jeff Chang: So I'll be like, you're all red. And then I'll gather up all of the window photos, you're now yellow, gather up all the balcony photos, and now you're green. And I'll do that for the entire wedding. And it takes about maybe 20 to 30 minutes. Like it's not long, it's, it's pretty quick process.
[00:16:55] Jeff Chang: But then what I'll do is I will go and edit the first photo of every color set, [00:17:00] and I'll get it to exactly where I want it. And then I'll select all of the photos that are in the same color zone and I'll sync them and I'll do that. I call it like, I dunno, mass s What are you syncing about? Okay. No.
[00:17:13] Jeff Chang: So you go and you sync all the photos and that takes another 20 minutes. And then now I'm ready to edit each photo individually. Because now I know that every time I reach a new photo, it has the adjustments that are appropriate for its specific lighting situation. And that's kind of,
[00:17:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: good approach.
[00:17:33] Jeff Chang: That's how I keep it consistent. And then when you go like sort by time and they go boom, back to where they go, I'm not worried that that one window photo and then there's another window photo, 10 photos later. I'm not worried that they're gonna look different, wildly different. They're actually gonna be super similar.
[00:17:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. That's a fantastic way to, to do it when you have to do it manually to make sure that those lighting differences get as consistent as possible. And then you're just worrying [00:18:00] about the minor details in between. That might have changed, you know, like,you might be in one room with this mixed lighting, but then if a cloud went in front of the sun, there's that slight change that you have to worry about, you know?
[00:18:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But otherwise, like the bulk of it is out of the way. That's a, I like that approach. Never heard that before.
[00:18:16] Jeff Chang: it's basically, like back to that analogy of cooking. It's just getting all your ducks in a row. Like, I want to have all my ingredients laid out in front of me.you know, if you've got your 10, 15 ingredients all chopped up, all ready to go, and now you can get to the cooking part, you can just go and you can just rock it out.
[00:18:34] Jeff Chang: And I'm a pretty, I would say, a pretty efficient editor. I use an editing deck to help with, you know, adjusting all my. All the things. And between that, once I've actually got my, sort by color done and I've gone and mass synced everything,I can get a 800 photo wedding done in an hour and a half to two hours.
[00:18:57] Jeff Chang: But it is like I'm going to town, like [00:19:00] it's, I need a nap afterwards. A pure focus. Oh yeah. Yeah. and I'm not listening to like, I'm basically listening. I don't listen to heavy metal, but like essentially heavy metal is what has to play in my ears. Otherwise I will start, I'll start like drifting and I'll be like, Ooh, shiny things.
[00:19:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. My favorite when I'm trying to focus, which isn't always the best, depending on how tired I am, is a Sigur Ros album
[00:19:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it's so relaxing. It gets you, like, almost in this meditative space, but then at the same time, it could, if you're like tired already, it could be too relaxing and you just fall asleep.
[00:19:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So it's also my go-to when I'm on an airplane and I wanna sleep. So I've got two reasons, 2, 2 times where I listen to,
[00:19:39] Jeff Chang: What was the name of it? I gotta look that up.
[00:19:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it's S-I-G-U-R-R-O-S, they're from Iceland.
[00:19:46] Jeff Chang: Oh, cool.
[00:19:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: the guitarists actually uses a violin bow to play the guitar. It's, yeah. when we stop recording, I'll send you my favorite album from them.
[00:19:57] Jeff Chang: Please do.
[00:19:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, okay.[00:20:00] you've just shot a wedding.
[00:20:01] Jeff Chang: Yeah.
[00:20:02] What is one thing that you do after a session that has increased business?
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[00:20:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is now one thing you do after the wedding, that helps for you to increase business?
[00:20:09] Jeff Chang: Oh, that is a question. I'm like, there's a red flag going up right now. Like, Jeff, I don't know if you do anything to increase business after a wedding. Okay. No, I do. I just thought of it. I just don't think I ever thought of it that way.
[00:20:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: This is the whole point.
[00:20:23] Jeff Chang: This is the whole point. So,so we all know about sneak peaks or previews.
[00:20:28] Jeff Chang: so right after the wedding I'll try to get them done. Honestly, I'll tell you two versions of sneak peaks. One version is a few days after the wedding. I've had some time to go through the photos. I will, edit a few out. I always include the family photos 'cause they know that's something that they want.
[00:20:47] Jeff Chang: So I'll do family photos, a few portraits and a few details. Things that I know other vendors might want to get their hands on. If there was a special cake, if there was, a ton of florals. Those kind of details I know that [00:21:00] local vendors are really gonna want to get their hands on. And so, I'll set up a gallery on Pic-Time and send those out to all the vendors and it's awesome because they will use those photos, they'll post them now, when I was really, really.
[00:21:16] Jeff Chang: Hungry. I would do it on the day. So I would bring my laptop to a wedding and I would load all the photos at the end of the day. And that was actually part of my backup system. There was a time in my life where I was like extra paranoid and I didn't wanna leave the wedding until I had a secondary copy.
[00:21:33] Jeff Chang: Not just like two cards in the camera, I mean like on a hard drive altogether. So I was already doing that and I said, you know, if I already have all the photos on my computer, like I could work on sneak peeks right now. And the extra little tip is that I rate in camera every once in a while. I'm not like culling on my camera, but I'll, you know when you're taking a photograph and you're like, damn, that was an awesome shot.
[00:21:58] Jeff Chang: You're looking at it, you're already looking [00:22:00] at it. Push the right button. That's it. Move on. keep shooting and you're doing a speech and dad laughs wholeheartedly. And you're like, oh man, that was such a great moment. Hit that right button. family photos, same thing. So actually family photos I do a little looser.
[00:22:15] Jeff Chang: So, I'll take, I'll take,three, four photos of a group and I'll just scroll through quickly in camera to be like, I wanna make sure all your eyes are open. 'cause I don't wanna have to Photoshop anything later. I'll just go check, check, check. And I go, oh yeah, everyone's eyes are open in this one.
[00:22:28] Jeff Chang: Right? Okay guys, next photo. I do that all. It saves me so much time later. So now end of the night, the photos are all loaded. I just hit, Hey, show me all my one stars. Boom. I've got a couple portraits, something from the reception, and I've got all the family photos already pre-Cal, and now I just need to find a couple of pictures of some flowers or maybe the cake, something that I didn't rate
[00:22:49] Jeff Chang: I'll edit those, whatever, 30, 40 photos. I don't put them on a galleries. Instead, I put them on my phone and I walk around and I go, Hey, wedding planner, do [00:23:00] you want the photos from today? And they're like, what? And I'm like, I'll airdrop 'em to you right now on your phone. Like, they literally, their minds are blown, right?
[00:23:08] Jeff Chang: They're like, the photos from today on my phone, like, yeah, on your phone right now. And I used to do this, and actually Erin Bishop, was that way up north. She's a wedding planner here in Vancouver, but she, helps the technical production of way up north. And, she did a, a talk, a presentation of, I think it was a number of years ago, and someone messaged me afterwards and said, Erin talked about you and how you used to give previews day of on a phone.
[00:23:36] Jeff Chang: And I was like, well, wow. I just made all of Europe super angry. Because they're like, wait, is this the expectation? Is the expectation that we gotta make previews like night of? I'm like, no, it's, it's not. I just, I was a little cuckoo, but, They haven't posted anything right at that point. And that's kind of where I wanted to get in.
[00:23:52] Jeff Chang: I didn't want them to post all of their regular BTS and then nothing for two or three days because they're most excited the very next day. So if [00:24:00] you can get them into people's hands night of, or morning, the next day is the best chance that they're gonna actually use your content rather than their own.
[00:24:08] Jeff Chang: Right. Because they're going to post about their flowers that they did or the cake they made. Right. they want
[00:24:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: you're not, any more top of mind in their mind than that
[00:24:18] Jeff Chang: that exact moment. Yeah. And, and same with the clients. So I would go up to the couple at the end of the night and give them a hug, goodbye. You know, kind of connect with 'em just before we go. And then I would say the same thing. I'd be like, Hey. Any chance you guys want me to airdrop you some photos from today?
[00:24:35] Jeff Chang: And they would like freak out. They'd be like, what? and they would have, you know, all their family photos and they'd be like, oh my god, mom and oh, look at dad. And they'd have this little sweet moment together. and it just kind of was the cherry on top. Now I don't have that hunger anymore, so I don't, I don't know if it's sustainable or if it's something that people wanna do, but it definitely was super [00:25:00] effective.
[00:25:00] Jeff Chang: now it's kind of like the next day I'll have same thing. I'll still rate camera on the day. That's definitely a huge help. get on my computer the next day, get the photos, I'll create the gallery, and then I'll just email them out to all the different vendors. But
[00:25:12] Jeff Chang: I can tell that there's a lot less taking and sharing of photos when you send it by gallery. Because then they're like looking at a gallery, having to download them onto their phone, save it, and then go back to Instagram and then post like there's way more steps. But if I'm airdropping you photos, then when the only way it's right there.
[00:25:30] Jeff Chang: You go to Instagram, you're like, oh, I can either post these five pictures that are amazing or the, you know, 80 that I took on my phone that looked terrible. Right. So it's like, which photo are they gonna use? Do the math, right?
[00:25:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: They, they're definitely using the one they just paid a lot of money for too.
[00:25:45] Jeff Chang: Yeah.
[00:25:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: that's awesome. I love that. my favorite part of the show is one that you probably have never seen before. Pick a color.
[00:25:56] Jeff Chang: Oh, wow. the yellow one just stood out to me.
[00:25:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:26:00] All right. I'm gonna, this is when I get to pick you a question. you're picking a question that, I probably would've never asked otherwise.
[00:26:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So I'm gonna thumb
[00:26:10] Jeff Chang: you?
[00:26:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I have not gone through all of these,
[00:26:13] Jeff Chang: Oh, so there really is.
[00:26:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm gonna thumb through it. Tell me when to stop.
[00:26:20] Jeff Chang: Stop.
[00:26:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. Just remember that you picked this question, not me.
[00:26:25] Jeff Chang: Okay. Viewers, I want you to all recognize that Scott did this off camera. So, you know, we really don't know.
[00:26:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. I do believe that I asked somebody this question previously. so I must have gotten to this card. I do shuffle these afterwards. what's the biggest lie you once believed was true?
[00:26:42] Jeff Chang: what's the biggest lie you once believed was true? Is it wedding related or just like in
[00:26:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Whatever. It doesn't even make a difference. It's just a fun way to throw a curve ball in there.
[00:26:51] Jeff Chang: that's a total curve of ball. so I spent, so as a child, as a third child,
[00:26:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-Hmm.
[00:26:56] Jeff Chang: I was a bit of a, I might have been a boo boo. and as I whispered this [00:27:00] into the microphone, I, I might have been a boo boo. And, uh, I spent a lot of time at home watching my dad work. And my dad at the time was, he retired as a realtor, but he, when I was younger, he was a bit of a mechanic, so he would fix, refrigerators and dishwashers, like hot water heaters.
[00:27:20] Jeff Chang: I don't know what trade that is. Like plumber, like
[00:27:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Plumbing, I think.
[00:27:24] Jeff Chang: plumbing. Yeah. So like that, that was kind of his trade. And, we had a basement where it was kind of his workshop and I would always go down the stairs and I would just ask to like, help. And he'd be like, no, no, no, no, no. It's dangerous. Dangerous. And I would like sit on the stairs and just watch my dad work.
[00:27:39] Jeff Chang: And every once in a while he'd be working on a refrigerator or, or something, and he would, he would get his jacket and, and leave. And I would say, oh, where are you going? And he would say, oh, I'm going to go buy some pots. And he'd always say, pots. And I was like, oh, what, what, what is that? And he'd come home every once in a while and he'd have like a, a part that was like this big, right?
[00:27:59] Jeff Chang: And it was kinda [00:28:00] shaped like a pot, like a, like a cooking pot, but it had like a lid. And I was like, oh, okay. So I, I, I just connected, those two things together and years and years and years go by and, you know, of watching him work and, and, and going out to buy this pot. And I must, I don't remember how old I was, but one day he goes out and he's like, oh, I'm gonna go buy some pots.
[00:28:24] Jeff Chang: And I was like, why do you need pots? Like, you're not working on a refrigerator. this was just like at home, right? And he's like, yeah, I gotta fix this and this and this. And I was like, oh, why would you need pots for that? And He's like, yeah, I need to buy pots.
[00:28:34] Jeff Chang: And I was like, wait, are you saying parts like, you've just been mispronouncing parts for like my entire childhood. And sure enough, he's like, yeah, parts. And I'm like, oh my God. Like my world was shattered. I was like, What's this thing in a refrigerator that you've been buying that I've thought was called pots this whole time?
[00:28:55] Jeff Chang: And no, he just had this sweet accent and he's just saying pots.
[00:28:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so, [00:29:00] that's so funny. I thought you were, so, I, at first I thought you were going with like a different type of pot and
[00:29:06] Jeff Chang: Oh.
[00:29:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and then I,
[00:29:07] Jeff Chang: Oh,
[00:29:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: at one point I'm like, oh, he's saying parts.
[00:29:10] Jeff Chang: he's saying parts.
[00:29:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: either way. That's a good
[00:29:12] Jeff Chang: yeah. My dad
[00:29:13] Jeff Chang: turns out, my dad's a huge pothead and he's just going out buying pots. Yeah.
[00:29:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and all the fixing all the stuff was just an excuse.
[00:29:21] Jeff Chang: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that was a little like shattering of my reality, I suppose. Yeah.
[00:29:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Love it. Great story. okay, now you're gonna, dig deep on this one.
[00:29:32] Jeff Chang: Hmm.
[00:29:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I want you to look down at your business from a 30,000 foot view.
[00:29:37] Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery?
---
[00:29:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: can you please share an outline breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery?
[00:29:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So like when a wedding comes in.
[00:29:46] Jeff Chang: I would've also accepted the view from a airplane, because airplanes fly around 30,000 feet. Right.
[00:29:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: judges
[00:29:54] Jeff Chang: An outline view of what it looks like from lead to,
[00:29:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:30:00] delivery.
[00:30:00] Jeff Chang: to delivery. Oh, wow. This is a real
[00:30:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: points. Oh, yeah. this is my favorite part. besides the random question thing, because it's gonna make you think of something that you would've never thought of otherwise.and,this is what really helps listeners to realize, oh, I could be doing this way better.
[00:30:19] Jeff Chang: Yeah. Oh yeah. I feel like the reality is there's so many parts of this process that could be tightened up, and there's definitely someone who's gonna be like, that doesn't make sense at all. Why would you do it that way? And I think a big part of it,I'll preface this, is,
[00:30:36] Jeff Chang: You get stuck in patterns or ways of doing things, right? Like, you load a dishwasher a certain way until someone goes, Hmm, why do you put your dishes that way? Or, why do you start at the end and come forward? Why don't you start at the closest and then go back? It's one of those things, right?okay.
[00:30:52] Jeff Chang: Lead comes in, I email them and I actually send a video as well, introducing [00:31:00] ourselves and just saying hi and thanking them and showing some appreciation for them taking the time to reach out in the first place.
[00:31:07] Jeff Chang: and then that gives kind of two ways of communication. So they can email us back or they can DM us back their
[00:31:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Hmm.
[00:31:14] Jeff Chang: we set up a meeting, so if they're interested and they're like, yep, we got your guide. We like what we're looking at, let's set up a meeting. So they already have a link where they can set up a zoom call with us, or we do it in person if they live in town.
[00:31:26] Jeff Chang: So if they live in town, I prefer in person because everything is like, no doubt everything is in person. You cannot tell me that Zoom is better than in person, unless they're in a different country or they live, you know, hours and hours away. So we've got two different calendars that, that set that up.
[00:31:43] Jeff Chang: We have the meeting, and then after the meeting we send them a thank you email and we basically just outline like, you know, what we talked about, if there's anything that we said that we would send them like links or, you know, a link to a full gallery or whatever they asked for, and then we wait.
[00:31:58] Jeff Chang: And [00:32:00] eventually, if they come forward and they're like, yeah, like let's make this happen, then we send them the agreement, and we get them the deposit, get the deposit set up and done. At that point, Cat does a lot of the emailing at this point. So I take, I do all the, the in ingest and the, the kind of initial inquiry.
[00:32:18] Jeff Chang: Cat does all the onboarding. So once they've actually said, yes, we'd like to move forward, Cat will take care of the agreement,payment, and as well as. Like, we kind of sell ourselves as like full service. Like we are full-time, wedding photographers. We want to be as helpful and useful to our couples as possible.
[00:32:34] Jeff Chang: So if they want to, you know, if they wanna ask us, they can ask us anything. And even if we don't know the answer, if we don't feel like we're the qualified person for this answer, then we wanna direct them to the right person. and even that I think is helpful. So they might say, Hey, we're setting up our reception out on a field.
[00:32:52] Jeff Chang: And,we remember during our meeting you said that, depending on where the light is, there is a direction that would be better. [00:33:00] And so like, yeah, send us the floor plan of what you got so far, we've been to that venue before. We think if you set up your table, you know, facing the big tree, that would be perfect and that'd be great for sunset photos.
[00:33:10] Jeff Chang: that's the kind of advice that I think really solidifies the, these photographers are going above and beyond for us. Right. Rather than, thank you for your deposit. See you in a year. Right. it's a lot of work because Cat gets, you know, we take 30 to 40 clients a year, so she'll get random emails and just anytime a day and just be like, oh, this is an interesting question or interesting request.
[00:33:36] Jeff Chang: but what it does do for us is it also, it gives us a way to guide how the day's gonna go. And it's, it's like borderline manipulation. It's like, it's not like it really isn't. We want them to have their best day. the things that we help guide and that we know will help us out is their schedule.[00:34:00]
[00:34:00] Jeff Chang: 'cause if we don't say anything. And there's no trust built prior to the wedding, we're gonna show up and they're gonna be like, yes, we have like 20 minutes to do, portraits and family photos. And you're like, oh, that's nice. Right? No, that doesn't work. That doesn't work for us. Right? And it, it doesn't work.
[00:34:15] Jeff Chang: They've hired us because they've seen our portfolio. If they've seen a whole wedding and they go, yeah, we want that. That's what we want. So the best thing we can do to help them get that is by guiding the process and saying, let us know. When you start working on your schedule and you're really like, fine tuning it.
[00:34:32] Jeff Chang: I know you've got your ceremony set at 3:00 PM but everything on your day is completely flexible at this point. Let us know, let us into that process. And they're so happy to do so. They're like, oh, like our planner suggested 45 minutes for portraits at that forest location that you had mentioned. We go, oh, that's awesome.
[00:34:50] Jeff Chang: But like, don't forget, it's 15 minutes away. So that's 15 minutes both ways. That's a half hour. and also like, why stress on your day when you don't have to, right? Like, why don't you build in an extra 10 [00:35:00] minutes beforehand, in case your wedding party needs to go pee or you need to refill your drinks, or you want to grab lunch.
[00:35:06] Jeff Chang: Like, let's put 10 minutes there. Let's put 10 minutes at the end and let's give ourselves an hour at the forest rather than 45. and then on the day it's like just so smooth. Everything is smooth and we know that we've built in this buffer time. The clients are happier. We're happier. It took effort on our part rather than just showing up and getting a schedule that just gets, you know, given to you.
[00:35:28] Jeff Chang: but wedding planners know to expect that from us. Like they will say, ask your photographers how much time they're gonna need, rather than, here's the schedule.
[00:35:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:35:36] Jeff Chang: Right. and you know, on the plus side too, like we bill ourselves on time, and this is probably the last thing we think about, but it is a bonus.
[00:35:45] Jeff Chang: So if you're thinking, well, what's in it for me? Other than more time to take photos, to be creative, to be less stressed, to have your clients really appreciate you. If that's not enough, then being involved in the scheduling means that [00:36:00] your, you know, eight hour day could be a 10 hour day or an 11 hour day with your input.
[00:36:05] Jeff Chang: And we get paid by time, so you also get paid more. so there is that, that actual, you know, there's that monetary gain as well. Again, it's the last thing we think about, right? Like, I'd be happy to shoot an eight hour wedding versus an 11 hour wedding, but a stressful eight versus a chill 11. I'll take that any day.
[00:36:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:36:25] Jeff Chang: Yeah. so we shoot the day, let me see. I like to bring a cooler. Okay, here's a hack on a really hot day, like a American a hundred degree day, or a Canadian 35 degree day. I will pack a cooler with some pop, some granola bars, even like some mandarin oranges. Like go to ta get your like soccer mom bag of fruit.
[00:36:49] Jeff Chang: Like, do it, like it, it, it's good. Do that. And then my hack is take a hand towel, put it in a Ziploc bag, throw some ice cubes in it, zip it up, [00:37:00] leave it in the bag. And when the portraits are done, the ceremony is done and you're about to move into the reception and you're like, I'm a disgusting stick mess.
[00:37:11] Jeff Chang: You go to your cooler and you ring out this icy cold towel and you basically give yourself like a sponge bath in a parking lot. Like it's the, it's, it's, it's sounds. Gross, but it is the most glorious thing possible. You're just like, ugh, like a cold towel on your face, like it feels so good and you've got like sunscreen on your body or whatever.
[00:37:33] Jeff Chang: Just like wipe it off, wipe it off, wipe it off. and then you go into the reception feeling like fresh and renewed. It's the best thing that we've come up with. Wedding shot. get home, it is a must to back up the photos right away.
[00:37:48] Jeff Chang: We shoot dual card in camera, but we load it onto, a server. So we've got like, not really a server, it's just like a five bay, one of those five bay thingies. So we'll load all the [00:38:00] photos onto that. and then I also load all the photos onto a little, offsite drive that I keep offsite in a secret location.
[00:38:07] Jeff Chang: And, shh. So I've got my offsite, I got my dual redundancy on site, and then I can go to bed, next day I'll, work on the photos and get the sneak peeks out or the preview files out. And, then what, send them all to the vendors, dah, dah, dah. And then, yeah, eventually one month later. No, it's probably, it's probably like three months later, four, four months later, you know, the, the, like the one hour later?
[00:38:40] Jeff Chang: Yeah, except it's like four months later. So four months later, I'll get around to, getting the photos called and edited and then, delivered. If they've got an album pre-ordered, that's great. Then we will work on the album as well. Send them the, the preview for that, and then get those [00:39:00] printed. we send out a thank you card, as well.
[00:39:03] Jeff Chang: Now, what I used to do pre pandemic, and I kind of wanna get back into doing this, we used to make like a physical box. We had like a box with our logo on it, and we would have some prints made. it was actually a, the system was, we printed the preview files and we could do that like prior to, 'cause we would bulk order all these photos so that we weren't getting like a thousand deliveries.
[00:39:25] Jeff Chang: So we would just get the last 10 weddings, all the preview files together, get them printed, sort them out, put them in a little box and deliver it with their final photos. So they'd get a link, but they'd also get something in the mail. During the pandemic, we were like, what's a cost that we can, pull back on?
[00:39:40] Jeff Chang: And we realized at the time that we were spending like. Literally a couple thousand dollars on these like custom boxes and the prints. And I was like, okay, we're really trying to cut back 'cause of the pandemic. So that was the first thing to go and now it's like, okay, we're kind of back to normal. We should really consider doing that again.
[00:39:57] Jeff Chang: So I haven't brought it back yet, but that would be probably the last [00:40:00] step is sending those photos off
[00:40:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You could probably bring it back and adjust how they are so they're not as expensive. Right? Like
[00:40:07] Jeff Chang: just As they are. What do you mean?
[00:40:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: like if, let's say, for example, I, I had one here. Not, I don't right now, but, like I, I used to do the wooden ones,
[00:40:16] Jeff Chang: Yeah, yeah. Same.
[00:40:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: sort of like burned your logo's, like burned into the box almost.
[00:40:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Like instead of doing that, it could be a beautiful white box with a brand sticker that's a lot less expensive, but still beautiful.
[00:40:29] Jeff Chang: yeah. it gets the point across. I think for the box. It definitely is a statement, right. They get it. It's very beautiful. I don't know how many people. Kept it. Like I know a couple of clients have sent a photo of it sitting on a coffee table or something, but ultimately it's not like my brand is, you know, a brand you wanna have, like you would never wear an apartment photography T-shirt, right?
[00:40:50] Jeff Chang: so do you want that on your coffee table actually, you know? yeah. but yeah, it's, I don't know. So yeah, you're right, a cheaper box would probably make [00:41:00] a lot of sense 'cause the prints
[00:41:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: you could do cheap and beautiful, like there's no. So, but sorry. Keep going.
[00:41:06] Jeff Chang: Yeah, so I think that's probably the last thing we do.
[00:41:08] Jeff Chang: something that I have been doing more of is taking the opportunity, this is something I'm still trying to develop and figure out, but at cocktail receptions, used to be the approach was full on candid. Like we just want to capture people as they are as authentically as possible. And the reality is there's always two of us, and we don't really need both of us doing cocktail hour.
[00:41:33] Jeff Chang: Maybe if there's like 200 guests, that's one thing. But at a lot of weddings now it's like 60, 80, 90 people. And, it's not that hard to cover. So something I started doing was taking people for portraits, just like spontaneously. And Cat cover the candid stuff and I would do the portraits. So the perfect example is like, oh, this past weekend we were on the island in Victoria and the sun was going down.
[00:41:58] Jeff Chang: It was so beautiful. And [00:42:00] so I just go up to people, I'm like, Hey, how's it going? Start to interrupt. would you do like a portrait? And they'd be like, oh yes. And literally I've only ever gotten one person being like, oh, no, we're okay. Like literally one. And like, don't let that discourage you. Everyone else is dressed up, right?
[00:42:13] Jeff Chang: Everyone's dressed up. They've taken time to get ready and to look their best. And they're not a part of family photos. They're not part of, like, they're not doing friends photos. Whatever. Right? So the only photo they're gonna get from this wedding day is if their partner takes a photo of them on their phone, like that's it.
[00:42:31] Jeff Chang: Or if their friends take turns, you know, you see them like gathering up and they take turns taking photos of each other.so it's a treat, it's a total treat to have the photographer pay attention to you and wanna take photos of you. and I do, it's a lot of fun for me. So I'll just go up to a couple and, I'll be like, Hey, do you guys want a portrait?
[00:42:47] Jeff Chang: And they're like, yeah, we'd love that. And I'll like walk away. like, we'll literally like, leave the reception area and like go to a, there was a nice garden and the whole time they're just like, oh my God, we're getting our own private photo shoot. And they're just [00:43:00] getting so psyched.
[00:43:01] Jeff Chang: and they feel special, right? And so I'll go and I'll take a few photos, I'll show them the photos I take and they're like, oh my God, these are amazing. Now the part that I have yet to develop is how do I get them these photos like sooner rather than later. Right? And there are solutions, and you're probably already thinking of some, but the aspect that I think works is the connection.
[00:43:24] Jeff Chang: So from doing this over the last, I've only been doing this for like a year and a half maybe I've gotten emails from people saying, Hey, like an inquiry saying, Hey, you probably don't remember us, but you took a photo of us at our friend's so and so and so and so wedding. And I could either be the photographer who just walks around looking cool the whole time and being like, I'm too cool for school.
[00:43:49] Jeff Chang: I'm only doing candidates. Right? Or I can be the photographer that actually engages with the guests and realize that actually the best way to network [00:44:00] is to network. Like you actually have to physically talk to people that you are, you are actually, I said this that way up north. I was like, you are literally a walking business card.
[00:44:07] Jeff Chang: Yeah, it's not like, don't passively advertise like you are already there, your audience is already there, so like, physically have that connection, right? and I was like, well, I can either go up and just like, be like, Hey, you know, these are pretty good canopies, right? or I could actually be, do what I do, just take photos.
[00:44:26] Jeff Chang: the couples that hire us get these beautiful photos of their friends. They can distribute them, they can have fun with them, whatever they wanna do it, you know? That's awesome. But, I think for me, the value comes in actually having these conversations with couples and giving them a great experience, right?
[00:44:43] Jeff Chang: Everyone at the wedding should have a great experience, not just the bride and groom, right? Or the couple I should say. So, it has gone too far at certain times where like I'll take the photo of a couple and then they'll be like, oh, you know, while I'm here do you mind like taking a photo for my LinkedIn profile?
[00:44:58] Jeff Chang: And I'm like, oh [00:45:00] God. Like this is where, it's gone too far. And I've like legit had to be like, okay, so like cross your arms and like look over your shoulder and like, what am I doing right now? Like, I gotta go. I'm sorry, I have to go back to the cocktail hour.
[00:45:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I was photographing a family once and the mom asked me to photograph their son who thought that he wanted to get into acting and asked me to do some head shots.
[00:45:22] Jeff Chang: right. It can get dangerous.
[00:45:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah, it's very easy. I have some rapid fire questions, about your workflow. video replies, are they personal or are they, you know, like general covers the
[00:45:34] Jeff Chang: No, a hundred percent. I hate to tell you this, but this is literally like the best kept secret. the rate of response. Quadruples. If you send a personal video, if I just send an email, then you're just one of however many emails they've sent out to people. Right? Send a personal,message. It takes 10 seconds.
[00:45:54] Jeff Chang: Kiss. Keep it simple, stupid. Just literally record yourself saying hi to, [00:46:00] you know. Hey Scott and Jeff. thanks so much for emailing me and I guarantee you, you will quadruple the response rate.
[00:46:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yep. I agree. so going above and beyond, I just wanna relate to that as well. as you know, you brought up early on before we started recording,I photographed surprise proposals,
[00:46:18] Jeff Chang: Yeah.
[00:46:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: as a proposal photographer, I go above and beyond and actually help plan the proposal. So, so like I completely agree, like that makes you stand out.
[00:46:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and I show in my marketing for proposal photography that I go above and beyond with the planning and show how I plan with you and stuff.
[00:46:36] Jeff Chang: That's awesome. I think that's an aspect I don't think we do very well.
[00:46:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: showing you mean like marketing that the fact
[00:46:43] Jeff Chang: marketing the, the aspect that we go above and beyond, I think it's partly to do with, like humility. Like there's a certain amount of like cultural humbleness that I was just raised with, and it's really hard for me to be to, to boast about it in a way that doesn't come across to me as boasting, even though you're like, well, you're [00:47:00] not, you're just, you're actually just explaining the service that you provide.
[00:47:03] Jeff Chang: I get that, but there's a bit of a hurdle for me.
[00:47:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there's, there's a, there's ways to do it. I found the way that works well for me with the proposal stuff, which is less, less complicated than a full wedding day, but. In my opinion, equally as stressful. 'cause it's, you have a finite amount of time. but, and then the last thing was how often, I was taking a little bit of notes when, my handwriting stinks.
[00:47:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and anyway, so, how often do, do the planners, fight with your schedule versus their own? Does that come up a lot or?
[00:47:37] Jeff Chang: no, they're actually super chill. Like it's, oftentimes it's collaborative because clients will say, oh, we're working with a planner, and they'll CC us in on, on the day. no, I, I, I mean this question's probably best suited for Cat because she does most of the communication with them. But I think because a, we've been in the industry here in Vancouver for so long, coming up 18 years, [00:48:00] we know almost every wedding planner personally.
[00:48:03] Jeff Chang: And so, yeah, I don't, I don't think so. I don't think we have, I think things like sunset photos. Are complicated because it's usually during the reception. So that might be like a, oh, we're trying to get like dad's. And that's a day of thing, right? Because you plan it all and you go like, yeah, we'll sneak off for 15 minutes.
[00:48:22] Jeff Chang: And the wedding planner's like, yep, I've got it in the schedule 8 45, you guys are gonna go. But of course, what happens, 8 45 hits and they still haven't done the two speeches they said they were gonna have, right? So that's where there's like day of negotiating of like, okay, what if we just did it here or whatever.
[00:48:36] Jeff Chang: And I think
[00:48:37] Jeff Chang: something that I've really come to,accept is It's not about you. It's what's in the best interest of the couple's experience on the day. And that's the part that I really,treasure.
[00:48:52] Jeff Chang: I really want to safeguard the couple's experience on the day. It's super, super important to me. Sometimes [00:49:00] the videographer might say oh yeah, we really want these 8 45,sunset photos or sunset video that we wanna do. And in the back of my head, I'm thinking, okay, well they still have two speeches to go.
[00:49:12] Jeff Chang: They haven't even had their main meals yet. And I can tell from their energy that they're anxious, they're hungry, and they need a break from our energy.
[00:49:20] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-Hmm.
[00:49:21] Jeff Chang: And I'm thinking, I've got a lot of photos from earlier. I'm super happy. I'm like, you know, something that I'm gonna be proud to deliver. These sunset photos aren't going to like, make or break their day.
[00:49:34] Jeff Chang: And if I deliver or don't deliver sunset photos, what really does that affect me? Like, it, it, it actually doesn't, right? So in this moment, I think the best thing for them is actually to skip the sunset photos at 8 45 and eat because they haven't eaten yet. Have your meal. It's all good. Right. Have your meal.
[00:49:53] Jeff Chang: And after that, it's gonna be blue hour or there's gonna be some cool, you know, residual light, and let's go do some, [00:50:00] you know, fun silhouettes or we can play with sparklers or, or whatever. And I'll go up and talk to them, right? Because they're like, talk to our planner, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:50:07] Jeff Chang: I'll go up and like, Hey guys, you know what? The sun's kind of going behind like some trees right now. It's, it's not looking so great anyways. Like, why don't guys just enjoy dinner? You've got two more speeches and we'll take you guys afterwards. And they'll go, oh, and you can just see their body go like, oh, like that's great.
[00:50:22] Jeff Chang: Thank you Jeff. Like relief. Right? And so they're gonna have a better experience on the day. That is literally all that matters. to me it's like first, right? Photos come second, really. and so, yeah, I don't know if that answered your question,
[00:50:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, It did. okay, let's move into the last question I got for you. So as we wrap this up,
[00:50:42] How did Imagen impact your life?
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[00:50:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: how did Imagen impact your life?
[00:50:46] Jeff Chang: Interesting.I was like, I've got the cheeky answer and then I've got the like, more legit answer. the cheeky answer is, just a lot of new faces in my life, which is like great and a [00:51:00] lot of dinners,
[00:51:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, the dinners are good.
[00:51:03] Jeff Chang: dinners. Dinners are fun. Dinners are good. yeah, Imagen, Imagen is. so you know how we kinda had that analogy where I was like, you know, buy the carrots we made, we made the carrot mash earlier.
[00:51:14] Jeff Chang: You remember the carrot
[00:51:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: sure did.
[00:51:16] Jeff Chang: Do you remember 32 minutes ago when I talked about carrot mash? And you were like, what kind of crazy Canadian are you?so Imagen for me is,
[00:51:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's like carrot mash.
[00:51:26] Jeff Chang: It's carrot. Imagen it's like carrot mash, the, the mash you never thought you needed, but there you go. okay, so say you're at a Michelin Star restaurant, right? And let's just say there's a famous chef Scott. Okay. Chef Scott.
[00:51:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yes Chef,
[00:51:47] Jeff Chang: And you're like, chef Scott is an artist. Chef Scott is renowned. Chef Scott is a three Michelin star, chef. He's amazing. Now he's back there in the kitchen. you know, [00:52:00] preparing the meal, you receive your first dish, it's beautiful, you eat it and you go amazing. Now knowing that Chef Scott didn't actually.
[00:52:11] Jeff Chang: Peel the carrots and he didn't peel the potatoes and he didn't boil them and he didn't even, you know, kind of cook them. But, he kind of did the final touches and added the garnish, plated it, and he was like, this is up to my standard. And he put it up onto the, onto the, what do they call that?
[00:52:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I don't remember
[00:52:32] Jeff Chang: heat warmer or whatever, you know what I
[00:52:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:52:36] Jeff Chang: So the pass. Thank you. So he puts it up on the pass goes ding ding, you know, orders ready. Right.even though you know all of that, do you take away any credit to Chef Scott because he didn't peel the carrots and he didn't peel the potatoes? Or do you go, damn, chef Scott makes an amazing carrot mash.
[00:52:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: exactly what I say.[00:53:00]
[00:53:00] Jeff Chang: Right. That's what you say. Chef Scott makes a damn good carrot mash. You're like, he's amazing and he deserves his three Michelin stars and he deserves all the accolades that he's received as being a renowned chef. And in the same way, I think that's how Imagen helps me, right? Imagen is the prep cook.
[00:53:16] Jeff Chang: Imagen is the, line cook. It's the peeler, it's the boiling, it's the preparation. It's all of those parts that I could do, you could ask Chef Scott to do, but would you rather Chef Scott be the, the buck stops at Chef Scott. He's gonna be the one who's gonna say, this is up to my standard.
[00:53:37] Jeff Chang: This needs to tweak. He's gonna taste it and go, mm, this needs a little bit more cardamon, or it needs a little bit more pepper. he's gonna make those adjustments before it goes out. That's where you want him. You don't want him back there sweating, being like, ah, I gotta peel these carrots and peel these potatoes.
[00:53:50] Jeff Chang: Like he could cook the whole meal by himself, but how's he gonna do it for? 200 people,at this restaurant, it's impossible. He's gonna run himself dry, he's gonna [00:54:00] be exhausted. And guess what? The quality will suffer. And so I think that's where Imagen comes in and it's going to take care of the grunt work.
[00:54:08] Jeff Chang: It's gonna take care of all that prep. It's gonna take care of the, you know, the boiling whatever, right? The boiling broiling, baking. Why does everything start with B?
[00:54:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, that's a good question. I've always that as well.
[00:54:18] Jeff Chang: I don't know. So Imagen took care of all of those things, and I get to be the chef at the end of the line who goes,
[00:54:26] Jeff Chang: This needs a tweak. This is perfect. this is ready to go. And yeah, that's kind of my cooking analogy for,for how Imagen is a part of my life.
[00:54:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Amazing. I love it.
[00:54:39] Jeff Chang: where can listeners learn more about you? Connect with you and of course, see your incredible photography.
[00:54:44] Jeff Chang: yeah. Instagram is the best place to connect. I don't have a YouTube channel or a TikTok channel, so don't bother. lots of videos, lots of reels, a lot of educational stuff on our Instagram.
[00:54:55] Jeff Chang: And we have a email list that you can sign up from the links in our, [00:55:00] on our bio or in our bio. And, we don't spam you. In fact, I haven't sent an email in probably six months. So it's a super active email list. You'll wanna join that.
[00:55:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Thank you again for chatting and I did tell you there's gonna be a lot of laughs on this and there was, so there we go.
[00:55:18] Jeff Chang: it was a pleasure, Scott. It was a lot of fun.
[00:55:20]
