Purposeful Corporate Event Photography Systems with David England

[00:00:00] David England: We just love how your colors are bold and natural. We love the contrast and you're not filtered. and so part of that is what I see from my eyes. and then the rest of it is you guys, [00:00:10] ​ [00:00:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: How's it going, David? [00:00:23] David England: Hey, things are great. How you doing? [00:00:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right.so, you know, I like to look at everybody I speak to. I like to look at their website. Look at their work and really just like dial in before I have these conversations because I find that it, you know, it could be that like for 10 years of my life I spent in the photography website space, but I find that I really get to know a person pretty well, just by looking at their photography website. [00:00:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, I love [00:01:00] that your style is just like. Very true to life.vibrant color. Look. it's definitely something that, that I strive to do in all of my photos with a, with a slight modification. But I'm a very simple, simple, simple editor. and anyway, so with that, you also have. A variety of different services that you offer, bet between weddings and head shots and corporate events and so on, and then real estate, pet photography. [00:01:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Let's sort of everywhere and I'm wondering what your favorite is of, of all of it that you do. [00:01:38] David England: The favorite genre for me is the one that pays like. It's really interesting. in six months I'll have been in photography for 25 years and the universe always seems to provide for me. So in some instances, in, in one year, weddings are popping and they're busy, and I love that industry. And in other years it's a corporate arena where they're [00:02:00] sending me out throughout the United States to photograph their conferences. [00:02:03] David England: I just like being in the space, capturing those moments and being engaging with people. I don't necessarily have a favorite genre because every year it's completely different from what. [00:02:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So what is, what's leading the pack right now in 2024? What's, what's leading, as far as, you know, helping your business the most? [00:02:23] David England: Right now it's conferences, it's corporate headshots and real estate photography. [00:02:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. [00:02:30] David England: seems like when the pandemic lifted and we were getting back to normal, everyone rushed to get married and everyone, including myself, we were struggling trying to keep up with the demand. And I feel like at least in my area, it's kind of waned a bit. [00:02:44] David England: And so as that's eased up, it seems like corporate America is ramping up and people are ramping up their resumes, looking for new headshots, and that's what's keeping me busy these days. [00:02:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. you on your Instagram, you have some photos with some celebrities. I'm curious. [00:03:00] What, who's your favorite celebrity that you've met, photographed and got a selfie with? [00:03:06] David England: By, [00:03:07] David England: yeah, by far Magic Johnson, like he is a jokester and, he is the super easiest, nicest person to hang around with. Like, he wanted to make sure that everybody was included in the space. With a thousand people, we all felt like. We were friends. Like, I don't know how he was able to like, get everyone on board, but we felt like we could hang out with him within the first two minutes of him speaking. [00:03:31] David England: He's down to earth. He's, very business minded and surprisingly, and I'm a huge Lakers fan. He's a better business person than he is a basketball player, which that kind of sounds bad, but when you hear his backstory and you know what he's done on the business realm, like the guy is brilliant. [00:03:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And he's pretty short. [00:03:53] David England: Nah, man. [00:03:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. if you didn't hear my sarcasm in that,[00:04:00] [00:04:00] David England: Yeah, no, I got [00:04:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so, so, as we're talking about shooting, right? You're in your, in what could have been your favorite, right? let's, let's dive right into the workflows for your photographic process behind the camera. [00:04:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You've got the camera in your hand. [00:04:16] What is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time? --- [00:04:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What is one thing you do for the photographic process that saves you time? [00:04:21] David England: I, I hurry up and I slow down.for me, it's very important to assess my area to look around, whether it's, I'm doing a wedding or if I'm doing conference photos, I have to figure out what is in my space that either adds or subtracts to an image. So I'll be the first one to move things if I see a trash can that might be in the shot during a grand entrance. [00:04:43] David England: It's gonna be moved beforehand. 'cause I don't wanna go back 50 60 images and edit the trash cans out. I wanna make sure that aesthetically when I get into a space to photograph that I'm only focusing on the people in the image as I'm not having things in the background distracted. So I will spend a few minutes to like.[00:05:00] [00:05:00] David England: Declutter a room or to move things around to make it work. Sometimes I'll even take picture frames off the wall 'cause it just doesn't work with my scene. I found over the years it's so much easier to spend just a few minutes in the, in the beginning, to get things set up to have a great finished product. [00:05:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. when you're doing like a corporate event, do you have to get permission to move things or take stuff off the walls or you just do it? [00:05:23] David England: I don't know if I'm supposed to get permission, but I just do it, [00:05:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: do it? [00:05:28] David England: know, they're, they're hiring us as a professional, right? And as a professional, if I think something's gonna be an obstacle for a finished product and I'll just do it. And most, I don't think I've ever had anyone say you can't do that. [00:05:40] David England: Every now and again, I'll talk to like a bartend and I'm like, Hey, can I move this, you know, during the, the first dance, can I move this trash can? And they're like, yeah, no problem. But for the most part, I just, I just go and do it. [00:05:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Related, but also unrelated. so at, what was it? Imaging, USA, so 2024 imaging, USA.or maybe it was [00:06:00] WPPI, I can't remember exactly which. Oh, it was WPPI. 'cause I remember it was the second of the big, big events. so they, they, where our booth was, we had a fantastic location, but they planted a, one of the giant garbage cans, like the corner, front, front, if you're facing our booth, it was like the front left corner of our booth, like practically touching our booth, our carpet. [00:06:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And I'm like, this is a. I mean, it's convenient to throw stuff away, but it's distraction. Like, so I moved it to mid aisle and by the next day they put it back like they didn't want me to move it. I was like, you kidding me? Like it's, it's, you know, not that we're photographing our booth. I mean, we, yes, we took a group photo at the booth, whatever, but it's just, it's ugly, you know? [00:06:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And so, but yeah, so I totally get it. You know, we're trying to move things outta the way that are distraction. It definitely makes sense, because that's gonna save you a lot of time. From there on to make sure that the photo, you don't have to use generative, fill in all that stuff and Photoshop to get rid of it. [00:06:59] David England: [00:07:00] So, Yeah, generator fill is great, but you gotta remember I started pre-YouTube era, so we didn't have any of those tools that you can circle around any race. It was going through every single image and trying to recreate what was in the background. So, you know, kudos to Adobe and kudos to what we have today, but. [00:07:18] David England: Going back as far as I have. I mean, I even started with film, like that's not an option. So it's a process that might be outdated, but I still feel like two minutes in the beginning will save you hours at the end. [00:07:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep, for sure. moving into the business side of things, [00:07:35] What is one thing that you do for the business that saves you time or money? --- [00:07:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing you do for your business that either saves you time or money? I. [00:07:40] David England: Okay. So for me is. Actually spending money and taking the time to build a CRM system, I was the first one to say, Hey. Why would I have a CRM system? I can like create a Word document and have all these forms and just cut and paste them back and forth. But as the business grew and as things got [00:08:00] busier, I realized that I couldn't keep up with the cut and paste aspect. [00:08:04] David England: I couldn't keep up with following up with clients. And so having a CRM system that you've built that helps you with the flow of your customer, your client experience from the beginning to the end. Has really helped me, level up. I can get more clients in. They all feel like they're having a personal touch and it's all just, you know, sending out emails that have already been created by adding a sentence or two. [00:08:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so as you just said, you know, you, you're, you didn't wanna do like the, the, the Excel, the Google sheet, the, the Word document, whatever it might be. so you must have gone through progressions of CRM systems over the years in your business.how many times have you changed CRM systems over the years? [00:08:49] David England: I had two. [00:08:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Two. Okay. [00:08:51] David England: and I've ended up with 17 hats. Hats for life.customer service is fantastic. The interface, although I'm not [00:09:00] a programmer, it took a few months to get familiarized with it, but once you're in it, you realize how much it can do for you. autonomously without you even being part of the process. [00:09:10] David England: That helps clients have touch points throughout the inquiry phase. once they're booked, there's touch points that I have with my clients that will get them close to their engagement session with tips or get them close to planning their wedding and having the room cleaned by the time I get there. [00:09:26] David England: And then there's even like, post follow up where I can follow up for reviews, I can follow up with, gift cards, et cetera. And, When you spend time to build it and you just activate a workflow and it does its thing and I fucking love it. Whoops. I freaking love it. I freaking love it. It's fantastic. [00:09:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, CRMs are definitely a, a game changer for every business, whether you're photography or something else. I mean, it's, you know, yeah, I think, I think like going from a spreadsheet is a good starting point for a brand new business, but you could, [00:10:00] if your business is going well, you're gonna quickly evolve into a, into a true CRM. [00:10:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, it's nice that you didn't have to change too many times. 'cause changing can be such a hassle. So. Good. Good. Let's, let's talk about editing now for a second. [00:10:13] What is one thing that you do for editing that has saved you time? --- [00:10:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing you do for editing besides from Imagen that has saved you time? [00:10:21] David England: Learning your white balance, if you can learn your white balance in camera before you take a shot and getting it dialed in beforehand. It can save you so much time in the backend. And if you're working with additional photographers, if you come up with a white balance within a couple hundred, you know, points away, you're gonna have a congruent edit, especially once you put it through the Imagen Software, [00:10:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. do you have a tool of choice that you use for, for getting, you know, proper white balance in camera? [00:10:54] David England: these eyeballs. [00:10:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. [00:10:56] David England: with with, yeah, with mirrorless cameras, you can dial [00:11:00] it in before you even press the button. So if you can get your exposure, I, your ISO, your shutter, your fs o in, and then you get your iso, do your, your white balance dialed in. You're, for the most part good to go. [00:11:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice whenever I do. so I'm, I'm, I'm colorblind. So, I've always had a struggle with color since the film days. And, my tool of choice has always been the Color Checker passport. but pre, pre passport version, it was the, the big. Color checker. but when they came out with Color Checker Passport and it talked to Lightroom so perfectly, I immediately switched to that. [00:11:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I was like, Ooh, this saves me even more time. So, that's always been my choice. but it's because [00:11:40] David England: Yeah. [00:11:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: can't trust my eyeballs, [00:11:42] David England: Yeah. And that's brilliant. And that's why I have conversations with my second shooters because I have two second shooters that are also colorblind. And so I'm like, Hey, try to be around 3,900. And they're like, okay, great. Start. but it's really interesting that you mention that my style of photography is. [00:11:58] David England: True colors, true [00:12:00] to life. And, that's what I strive for. and every client that reaches out to me says the exact same thing. We just love how your colors are bold and natural. We love the contrast and you're not filtered. and so part of that is what I see from my eyes. and then the rest of it is you guys, like your software is, is basically creating another version of me, which is fantastic. [00:12:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Sweet. Yeah. We're gonna get to Imagen down the road, but, but let's now move into, [00:12:27] What is one thing that you do after a session that has increased business? --- [00:12:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what happens after a session? So let's say, I'm just gonna throw out there a corporate event. Okay. What do you do after a corporate event? that has either, well, let's, let's just go, what, what happened after a corporate event that has increased business for future? [00:12:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Corporate events. [00:12:47] David England: Okay, well, we could start with what's happening during, and then we can jump into what happens after. So. During a corporate event, I always make sure who I knew, who all the head players are, not only to [00:13:00] the corporate clients that are hiring me, but there's probably big wigs there, right? That probably need a new headshot or probably need some new photographs where they're speaking at a presentation. [00:13:09] David England: So I, I try to figure out who the key players are to make sure that I have photographs for them. and then I also have a point of contact, whether it's a digital, asset, person, or it's someone who's on the social media team, through the conference every hour I'm constantly sending them snippets of what's happening so they can share on their social media spreads, they can share on their LinkedIn in real time to engage the people that are there. [00:13:34] David England: And to engage the people that wanted to be there that are gonna book the next year. So I provide the same day service for all of my clients, at additional charge of course, but I can send them content that they can use and they can share in real time. And that gets 'em Oh yeah. [00:13:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, no. I was actually gonna ask, sorry to cut you off, but I'm curious, can you walk through that, that piece of that workflow for us like. [00:14:00] How are you doing that, where you're getting it so fast to the, to that social media team, while you're in the middle of the event? [00:14:07] David England: Sure. Absolutely. So I'm a Canon guy and most camera companies these days have a tethering system or an app. So you can access your photos or you can send them to your phone. I use a feature that can tag the images from my camera. So when I pull up the app, it'll show me only the ones that I've tagged, and it's just a quick button. [00:14:26] David England: so when I have a, a few minutes, a few downtime minutes, I turn on the app, I pull up the ones that I want to tag. I've got an iPhone, I hit the auto button.and for the most part, they're good to go. And then I usually have the person's contact, WhatsApp information. WhatsApp allows you to send about 29 or 30 images at a time, and I just push 'em through, whether it's an individual person or if it's a group WhatsApp message, I can send up to 30 at a time and it doesn't, it doesn't take any time at all. [00:14:54] David England: It's fairly quick, but the wow factor that clients get are like, how did you get these so soon? [00:15:00] And how are they so amazing? Because my iPhone's not doing this. It's like, that's why you're hiring a pro. That's why you're hiring a [00:15:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah. It's true. okay, so yeah, that was great. Thanks for, thanks for sharing that. You were saying, I think you were about to move into after [00:15:12] David England: afterwards. Yeah, so, you know, I'm, I'm always plugging like. You guys don't get the service already with your other photographers and your other locations. Like, we've never seen this. This is great. And I always thought, Hey, you know, I travel right. Hey, you know, I travel right? And then afterwards I send in the gallery within a couple of days and they're like, these are so quick. [00:15:32] David England: I can't believe they're done so fast. How do you do it? Well, I have a team. My team is of course you guys, but, they're so excited to have photos during the conference and photos after the conference within a couple of days, and I reiterate, Hey, where are you guys going next year? Would you like the same service from me? [00:15:52] David England: Now you already know the experience that you've gotten with me. Would you like me to come with you guys next year? And I, it's, it's amazing. Most of them say yes [00:16:00] and it's great 'cause I get a vacation and I get to travel and I get to do what I love. So it's awesome. [00:16:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. That is cool. That is cool. Nice. my favorite part of the show, which I started doing in season two, and I'm gonna keep it going until people get bored of it. [00:16:17] David England: I already know [00:16:18] David England: Green. Green. That was the one that was in my head before we even started. [00:16:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: All right. I'm gonna thumb through 'em. You tell me when to stop. [00:16:29] David England: Okay. [00:16:31] David England: Go ahead. Stop. [00:16:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: All right. I love that you knew what I, where I was going with this. okay. Ooh, this is gonna be a good one. Did your childhood shape you into who you are today? I. [00:16:48] David England: I suppose everyone's childhood shapes into who they are today. with regards to photography and my business, we had like the lifetouch portraits every year from our school, [00:17:00] like. Back then they would give us a free sheet of wallets, and that's pretty much all we could afford. Like we didn't buy packages for everyone. [00:17:08] David England: We didn't. Go to a place that professional photographs, and when I was about 13, I realized that while most family had like pictures on the wall and lots of photographs from trips and vacations, we couldn't afford that. We didn't have that. So [00:17:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm. [00:17:23] David England: it branched out in a journey for me to start photography and I started with a one 10 camera that I got a 35 millimeter camera. [00:17:30] David England: Then I got a SLR camera and at some point it became a business, but I realized the importance and the power of photography. Especially not having any of it at home. And so knowing that I create, whether it's even a corporate function or a birthday or a wedding, like I'm creating like a moment in time that's gonna live past me, and that is epic. [00:17:50] David England: That's like food for my soul. So has it, has it affected who I am today? Isn't at all Absolutely. [00:17:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. I, [00:18:00] I love it. I love it. Well said. okay, so this is the part where you're gonna be, Digging deep. And, I have a feeling because you are, you've been doing this for, for, for so long and you have a lot of systems in place that you'll, you're gonna nail this one. taking a third look, a look at your business from a 30,000 foot view down, [00:18:21] Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery? --- [00:18:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: can you share an outline, breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery? [00:18:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And let's focus. We've been talking about corporate events. I think that's a great place to focus. Because I know you're gonna have a different structure for weddings than you would for a corporate event versus head shots, et cetera. So let's focus on the corporate event. [00:18:37] David England: Sure. Well. Regardless of the genre of photography, the formula's mostly the same. You get an inquiry that comes in and you respond to it in the corporate arena. What I found that's been super helpful is try to get back to them within 10 minutes or less. try to focus on scheduling a Zoom or a phone call with them [00:19:00] to get the information that you need to get them an accurate quote. [00:19:03] David England: And when you do. Go ahead and send them your, your 10 99 and send them your business insurance. So it's something that they don't have to ask for later, and I found that in most instances, I'm the only one that's doing it. So to all the Imageners out there that are growing their corporate arena, business included, they will be surprised that you've done that along with a quote that represents what they need. [00:19:28] David England: So. That's immediate. They have the quote, they've got the tax forms, they've got the business insurance. Then it's just a series of follow up. If I haven't heard from him in a couple of days, I'll send him another follow up. I'll have a link through my CRM system that will set up a Zoom call automatically, which is great. [00:19:46] David England: I don't have to be part of that. It looks at my availability and then they pick a date and time. then we get on a Zoom call with all the players that are, planning the conference and, we answer any additional questions that they have at that time. I throw in, oh, by the [00:20:00] way, would you like a headshot station? [00:20:02] David England: For your guests, would you like to have team photos for your executives? So I'm always building, add-ons and I'm also adding a service that they might have thought about. So at that point, it's either they're gonna pick me or they're not. If they do, then it's a series, it's a contract. Then it's a few additional emails that I send out to them on, planning their conference, like trying to get timelines, trying to get pictures of the people who are important for me to photograph and any last minute changes that I might need to know about that we hadn't talked about earlier in the year.do I go all the way to the end or do I go up to this point or do you want me to start? Stop. [00:20:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's where wherever you feel comfortable, going. It's, it's all good. We got, we got time. So this, I, this is, this is the part where, where people really get like the little nuggets, like the one you just shared about sharing, sharing like the, the insurance and stuff. That was a good nugget that most people probably do not think of. [00:20:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So this [00:21:00] is this, this is, this is the juicy part. [00:21:03] David England: Okay. Absolutely. So during the conference, I mean, of course you're, you're working the contact that hire you and in many cases it's either an internal person that only deals with. Conferences and events, or they hire a third party company that does them, like you're, you're networking with them in real time to make sure that they're getting exactly what they need. [00:21:23] David England: you're meeting the CEOs and the important people and you know, getting them by first name and making sure that they understand that I'm here for them. and then you engage and you get some fun pictures with people at conferences. the very first conference photography that I photograph, it was, For investors and the lady's like, you're not gonna get any good engaging photos. This is a boring crowd. And I'm like. Challenge accepted and, I got the most fun and most engaging photographs from the event. And like since that event, they hire me twice a year. And it's great, because I, I'm able to get something out of people that only deal in numbers. [00:21:58] David England: Like [00:22:00] everyone wants to have fun. Everyone wants to smile. You just have to figure out how to. Get them into that space. So, take 'em all the way through, send them photos daily. do recaps, do follow ups every morning to see if there's anything that I can do better or if anything that I might have missed or any last minute changes because in conferences, things change all the time, rooms change, speakers change, et cetera. [00:22:21] David England: Post event follow up with all of the major contacts, if you have time, which typically I don't, I don't post a lot on social media, but because I've been giving the photographs to the, social media team, they're posting my stuff and tagging me. So it kind of works that way. [00:22:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a big win. [00:22:40] David England: Yeah, it's a big win 'cause they're doing my job for me. [00:22:42] David England: Right.and then lastly, just follow up. Make sure that you're asking for those reviews. Make sure that you're asking for critiques to make things better. And then ask for the sale. Ask to go with them next year. Like let them check that off their list of things to do for the following year. Because many of [00:23:00] these conferences go to different states every year. [00:23:04] David England: And. Do they really want to start all over with another photographer they never work with? Probably not. They already know your service is great. They already know the photos are great. They already know the experience is great. They will bring you along. [00:23:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You know, it's kind of, I mean, it's not kind of, it is the same if you, if you go to imaging USA, you go to WPPI imaging, USA changes locations every year. But you always see the same people photographing the speakers, you know, in their classes and at the photo walks and stuff like that. WPPI is always in the same location, but it's always the same. [00:23:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Or except for this upcoming one where they're changing hotels, but like same thing every year, it's the same people because they know those people are going to produce what they want for promoting the event for the following year and et cetera, et cetera. So, that totally, totally makes sense. I do have a question about when you're going back and forth about pricing, how often do you find yourself like. [00:23:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: In the bid running [00:24:00] with another photographer, and if it happens often, do they, does the event coordinator come back and say, it's down between you and so and so, they came in at this price. Can you be, can you match it or beat it or can you do something like, do you have to negotiate with them because of competition? [00:24:20] David England: Sometimes, but I will say as a general rule, you're never part of that conversation because they'll never tell you what the budget is cases. So you don't know what to strive for, so you just shoot for what you feel like is good for you for a daily rate. but it's either they love you after the zoom call. [00:24:38] David England: They love you after the clear and concise broken down, quote. By day, my quote says, you know, here are the hours. Here's what my deliverables, here's what I'm doing. If they love the consistency of like what I'm providing them in the, in the speed that I'm providing them, price is less of an issue. But if price is an issue and they aren't able to give you [00:25:00] a, a budget amount and they pick someone that's cheaper, you'll probably never hear from them again. [00:25:06] David England: And, that's okay because those are not my clients. My clients are the ones that can appreciate I. Quality service and quality images. [00:25:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. let's, let's talk about AI for a minute. you know, we brought up a little while ago generative Phil, how. You know, years ago when, when you first started, I'm, I'm, you and I are probably a similar age, same thing. It didn't exist. We were shooting film. but now AI is in everything. so how, what does, [00:25:39] What does the future of AI in photography look like to you? --- [00:25:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what does the future of AI and photography look like to you? [00:25:45] David England: Well, if you asked me a year ago, because I was just looking at my iPhone reel and it showed a year ago that I tried generative AI a year ago, I felt like getting out of the industry. I. Because I'm not huge on learning new things. [00:26:00] And, when I saw what generative fill could do, I freaked out. Like we're gonna be replaced within a couple of years. [00:26:08] David England: And, as AI has evolved, it's not perfect, but now I can see how I can use it, utilize it as a tool in my business to get better images, to do better work, and to have more time for myself. [00:26:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Yeah, I, I do think that that, the AI that's things like in Photoshop will not, will definitely. Takes some of what we do away, but at the same time, I do think it's going to, I think it's gonna play a bigger role in helping us do better things rather than take our jobs away. yeah, it's gonna impact, but I think it's going to. [00:26:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Be more of a benefit in the long run. but time will, time will tell, [00:26:55] David England: Time will tell. [00:26:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I do think there are some, and this is, this has come up in the past episodes. [00:27:00] I do think there are some genres that are more at risk of being replaced than others. [00:27:05] David England: Mm-Hmm. [00:27:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Headshots, for example. not that I want it to, but it's too easy for the AI to replace that, you know, that genre. [00:27:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So we'll, again, we'll see, we'll see what [00:27:17] David England: We will see. Have you tried the, the headshot? 'cause that was the first thing that I did. And, head shots don't work on bald people. [00:27:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: they don't work [00:27:25] David England: I have tried, like, they've given me red hair and green hair and hair in general. I don't, I don't have hair so. At least for the demographic like us, [00:27:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:27:37] David England: who are follicly challenged will need a photographer for head [00:27:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. I, I also find it, yeah, it often tries to make me into a Viking as well. Like I, I look all scruffy, like, you know, I don't know. It's, it's, it is funny. It is funny. It's not quite there yet, but, it's only gonna get better and better. So, I mean, it is a little scary that it, it has [00:28:00] the potential of replacing that genre. [00:28:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But, okay. So,as we talked about originally, just to loop things back around, you've got a wide range of work, in genre of photography. There's one that, that is fairly new to Imagen that I, I don't think I know. We, we emailed briefly about it, the whole real estate genre. did you have a chance to try the real estate features yet, or [00:28:23] David England: I have not, so feel free to walk me through it. [00:28:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Well, yeah, so we can, we can always talk about it. But, my, my question besides in the real estate, because you haven't, you haven't tried it yet. how ha [00:28:34] How did Imagen impact your life?r --- [00:28:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: How did Imagen impact your life otherwise? [00:28:38] David England: Sure. so I'll be first to say that I've tried the big boxes. Companies that did the contracts with the, oh, you'll have a personal editor and they'll edit your style. And I've done that and it's taken so long and it was never right and you'd send it back and forth for two and three months and they wouldn't get your style, and it was just easier [00:29:00] to just edit yourself. [00:29:01] David England: I've tried the big box companies, I've tried individuals and I just couldn't get them to. Even get close to my style. I don't feel like my style is that much different to life, so it should be easy. But, I was at a point in my business where I was hemorrhaging. I couldn't keep up with my demand and of course I didn't wanna learn. [00:29:21] David England: Imagen, and you're like, oh, you need 5,000 or was it 7,500 at the time? Just feed it your catalog and it'll start working. And I'm like, yeah, right, I'm gonna try it. And then it did. And it kind of freaked me out, like I. There's another version of me without me having to hire another version of me. and I was able to take my deliverables from like two to three weeks from a wedding and now for weddings on Saturday. [00:29:47] David England: In most cases it's available to the client on Monday or Tuesday. And, when I was doing. Eight to 10 weddings per month. During the peak post pandemic, I was still getting a consistency of getting [00:30:00] weddings done and just a few days past their, their wedding date. And, for me, I don't sleep. If I have a lot of stuff I need to edit, my brain doesn't shut off and I get like these minor panic attacks. [00:30:10] David England: but with Imagen it's helped me like manage my time better and because now I can get through, 'cause colon back in the day would take me about four hours and now it's like. You guys do it, and then I, I recheck it in maybe 15 minutes and then editing would take a day and a half to two days, and now it's like two to three hours. [00:30:30] David England: so I found myself with more time. I. Of course, with great power comes great responsibility. I thought that I would have more time for myself, but what Imagen has allowed me to do is to ramp up my business and to get more business and to expand into other genres. That inevitably keeps me busier now than before, so feels like I have an assistant that can do the heavy lifting for me while I focus on. [00:30:57] David England: The task at hand that makes me the money, which is [00:31:00] booking clients, booking events, and, pulling my camera instead of being behind my camera, being behind the computer and editing. [00:31:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Are you at the point now, with the aid of Imagen, of course, as you just said, but are you at the point now where if you got a, a lead for a job and they were like, we, we need you, like on this specific weekend, but you had like. Planned to go on a, on a vacation. Finally, do you, in your, in your head, are you thinking, do I take this and earn the money or do I, do I go and enjoy my time and just turn down a job because I don't absolutely need that money right now because I'm doing so well, you know, like what's, what goes through your head if in those type of situations now? [00:31:43] David England: I [00:31:43] David England: still go for the money because, [00:31:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. Alright. [00:31:47] David England: a magic can work wherever, right? I mean, you can call and at it while you're at the airport like it's. Not a big thing anymore where it used to be a daunting task where if I [00:32:00] knew I was going on a vacation, they needed the photos in three or four days and my, it was at the beginning of my vacation, you know, I would. [00:32:07] David England: Ruin my vacation by focusing on work. And now it's like, just press a couple buttons and just review it for a little bit and then upload it to your gallery and send them, send them your automated res, your automated emails to get them those images as soon as possible. So yeah, I always go for them. And because in this industry, you know, I'm getting up there, I'll be, I'll be 50 in a little over a year. We kinda age out, especially in certain genres. So when work comes, I'm gonna jump on it because I don't know when the next opportunity will be. And my reality is it's a world of abundance. There's enough work for everyone and, but I'm always like, oh, let me just get this next event. Let me get this next, this next project. But through the help of your software, I don't have to worry about deadlines anymore because I know that, the heavy lifting is done by you. so I can focus on being [00:33:00] present in the moment, taking pictures for my clients. [00:33:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Are you, when you, when you deliver fast, are you doing an, an add-on for a faster turnaround time or are you just Okay. Can you, can you [00:33:15] David England: Yeah. Absolutely. So I have, I. I call them luxury edits for my brides, and grooms, if they want to have their entire gallery within 48 hours, it's an upcharge. I have the same thing for corporate clients if they want them done within 24 hours as an upcharge. Now, if it's a client that I'm trying to, when they're bid for the following year, I'll throw that in as an incentive to get their business for the following year. [00:33:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Good idea. [00:33:41] David England: So I just waive that for them. and then going forward wa it for them as well. Now, what is it costing me? Absolutely nothing. But the dollar amount that's associated with the express edits is something that they're considering when booking me and taking me to another city or another state. [00:33:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. I, I, [00:34:00] I can see that working extremely well for, for corporate events, for that recurring, that recurring work year after year. That's a very good idea. So kudos on doing that. so David, this is, this has been great. I know there's a, so many takeaways that people are gonna have from this. and you know, I, I'm so happy because it's not too often that on the show we get to talk about corporate events. [00:34:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So often it's, it's weddings and portraits, you know, which, of course, there's portraits involved with corporate events, but, it's, it's different enough that it's, it's a joy to refreshing to be able to talk about that rather than the the norm. Right. So,thank you for, for, sharing some, some knowledge with everybody, on that. [00:34:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: On that genre. so where can listeners learn more about you? Connect with you and of course, see your incredible photography. [00:34:49] David England: Sure. So on the web you can find me at David England photography. England, like the country. You can also find me on Instagram. Same handle David [00:35:00] England photography. I'm not on any other site, so feel free to hit me up. Send me a DM if you'd like. I am based in Long Beach, so if there are any local, photographers that would like to meet for coffee, catch up chat, network, feel free to hit me up. [00:35:13] David England: if not. I hope to see everyone at some kind of conference in the coming year or two. [00:35:20] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Amazing. Thank you. [00:35:22] David England: Appreciate your time. [00:35:23] ​