Setting Boundaries and Managing Client Expectations in Your Photography Business with Lindsay Coulter and Timothy Muza

042 === [00:00:00] Welcome to the Crossover Episode --- [00:00:00] ​ [00:00:49] Linsday Coulter: Okay, everyone, [00:00:51] Timothy Muza: we're here. [00:00:51] Linsday Coulter: We're here. [00:00:52] Timothy Muza: We are. Welcome [00:00:53] Linsday Coulter: to Shoot Your Shot and Imagen here in one place Workflows [00:01:00] under Under one Household crossover [00:01:02] Timothy Muza: episode. [00:01:02] Linsday Coulter: We are so excited. We have Scott here from Imagen. We are so excited to have you here. Scott, thank you for joining us on the TV in our [00:01:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: office. I should, I should just start talking like a robot, I think. [00:01:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: 'cause that's kind of, you know. [00:01:17] Linsday Coulter: You know what? That's actually the next episode. It's so funny you mentioned that. Amazing. You've been working with some of the engineers at Imagen to actually get you arms so you can control them. Ooh. And [00:01:27] Timothy Muza: you can roll the eight ball next time. That'd be amazing. That'd be amazing. [00:01:28] Timothy Muza: And then you could [00:01:28] Linsday Coulter: actually just reach out with your robot arms and grab. So for those of you that are just tuning in and listening, oh my gosh. And you can't actually see what's going on. Well, if there was [00:01:37] Timothy Muza: ever a time to tune into YouTube to see the monstrosity that we've created, it looks simple on our screens, but trust us, it is anything. [00:01:44] Timothy Muza: It's a Frankenstein. Of epic proportions. We'll show you a BTS post this episode. We'll post a B [00:01:49] Linsday Coulter: Ts on social so you guys can see the absolute pure chaos that we have created here. So good. but Scott is joining us from New Jersey. Jersey, right? Do you hate that, Scott? I'm sorry. I am so [00:02:00] Canadian. I don't know how to say Jersey properly. [00:02:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's all good. [00:02:04] Linsday Coulter: But Scott's joining us from New Jersey , [00:02:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: you know what I, I, I inspire to, To, to get you to Frankenstein stuff. So it, it all works out. It all works out. Amazing. [00:02:17] Linsday Coulter: It's working out so well and we are so happy to have you here. [00:02:21] Linsday Coulter: and we are happy to be joining you on the Imagen Workflows podcast on, on your end of things as well. We Yeah. [00:02:28] The Importance of Workflows --- [00:02:28] Linsday Coulter: Are huge fans of Imagen, we obviously like even without, even before we actually talked about doing this crossover episode. Yeah. We have talked about, Imagen, I would say probably on every episode, intentionally or unintentionally in one way or another. [00:02:41] Linsday Coulter: It's [00:02:41] Timothy Muza: come because it's come such a big part of our lives, professionally and honestly, personally. Yes. Relationships we've created with people who work at Imagen have been like, like some of the best Yes. From any, any perspective of a company. We don't, you know, 100% own. [00:02:53] Linsday Coulter: Yes. Like truly right? Yeah. And the relationship feels so natural, and we have gained so much [00:03:00] knowledge from our friends at Imagen Yourself included, that we thought, Hey, we're an advice podcast. [00:03:06] Linsday Coulter: Why not bring in the masters of advice themselves to join us? and you have, through your podcast, have gained so much valuable insight from other photographers as well. for the people that are listening to Shoot Your Shot that maybe haven't checked out Workflows yet, do you want to just tell them a little bit about what you usually talk about on your podcast? [00:03:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. So as, as you might Imagen, the, the show is, is about photography Workflows. But we, we are not just talking software, we're talking from everything from in camera to delivery. every aspect of a photographer's workflow is basically what we cover. And so in each episode, you're walking away with some sort of tip or nugget that, you know, could help enhance, even save you five minutes of your, of your workflow to hours and hours of your workflow, depending on, on the discussion. [00:03:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: but we've also brought other type of things [00:04:00] in with different monologues about specific topics or. what we're doing right now, where we're doing this nice collab and having something, a whole new perspective on, on, on Workflows and business and things like that. So, the idea is just to help photographers save time, save money in some way. [00:04:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: whatever it might be in their, in their business and in their lives. So I love that that's, that's working with you. And I think it [00:04:23] Balancing Business and Personal Life --- [00:04:23] Linsday Coulter: really, like, it goes so much deeper, like you said, than just talking about Workflows. Because essentially the only reason that we are trying to be more productive, obviously, is so that we can become more profitable and have businesses that are maybe feeling a little bit more effortless. [00:04:39] Linsday Coulter: But in doing that, the goal is not just make more money and be better photographers, right? Yeah. Like that's obviously not the goal. Well, maybe that be is the goal, but the goal is so that we can, like for me, spend more time at the cottage Mm-Hmm. Hang out with my little cousins a bit more often. Enjoy life. [00:04:55] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. Just spend more time doing the things that make me really. [00:05:00] Happy as a human being, which in turn makes me love my business more. Yeah, right. So yeah, maybe when you hear the term like business and Workflows and all of this, you're just like, oh, sounds really riveting. Sounds like a [00:05:12] Timothy Muza: rise and grind kind of thing. [00:05:13] Timothy Muza: But its not. But the kinds [00:05:13] Linsday Coulter: of conversations that you're getting into on your podcast almost always come down to the emotional aspect of it and what. What Imagen and, and just a, a better workflow from start to finish, what that gives you back in your life. Right? Like, I know even on the episode that I was on, of Workflows, like we got into like deep life things because that's the reason why I care about Workflows. [00:05:35] Linsday Coulter: It's like, so that my mental health is good so that I can show up as the best version of myself to like my parents and my friends and, you know. It's about, it's about a lot more than that. so I'll give like a little bit of an intro I guess for, for your, listeners that might not know us. So, I'm Lindsay Coulter and this is Tim Musa. [00:05:51] Linsday Coulter: Hello. And, we are full-time photographer as we're based out of Waterloo, Ontario, really close to Toronto. And [00:06:00] Tim is a photographer slash also a videographer. Filmmaker, podcast producer here we are. Here we are. And I am a photographer. and I'm a podcast doer. I don't produce anything [00:06:15] Timothy Muza: you produce in the way that like you're here and you're. [00:06:17] Timothy Muza: Providing so much more value than I could alone. Thank you for giving me credit. That's so nice. Of course. No, my goodness. You help design this space. This would be a black hole of, of no, well, some lighting, but it wouldn't look as aesthetically pleasing as it does. So, yeah. [00:06:29] Linsday Coulter: And the other thing that I love to do is just talk about life and the way that our businesses, feed into our lives. [00:06:35] Linsday Coulter: Mm-Hmm. [00:06:36] Listener Questions and Advice --- [00:06:36] Linsday Coulter: And one of the things that we do on the Shoot Your Shop podcast is that we answer questions that people send us. This is the whole point of this podcast is people send us a dm, they send us voice notes, they send us little videos, and they can be anonymous or they can be public, and they ask us questions. [00:06:51] Linsday Coulter: And Tim and I, with all of our wealth of knowledge, so [00:06:55] Timothy Muza: much wisdom, [00:06:55] Linsday Coulter: we answer people's questions and we've had questions from, [00:07:00] what do you do when you have a videographer that you cannot stand working with on a wedding day? You know, down to what do you do in your family doesn't support your career choice. [00:07:08] Linsday Coulter: Like we're talking about a huge range of topics. Absolutely. But the first thing that we do at the beginning. Of every single episode is we ask a question of the magic eight ball, and then we shake the eight ball and it gives us an answer. So we have to come up with a question. This is also the funniest thing. [00:07:26] Linsday Coulter: I just said this on the last week's episode. You think that I could come pre come up with a question, but No. I like to, I like to live large. I like to live in a risky state of being. And today I'm gonna come up with a question on, oh, I have a really good question. [00:07:41] Timothy Muza: What do you got? [00:07:42] Linsday Coulter: Are we going to get to hang out with Scott at the next photography conference that we all meet up at? [00:07:50] Linsday Coulter: Because Scott keeps, keeps avoiding us. Scott keeps avoiding us. Scott keeps on not coming to the conferences and we have to cry our little hearts out. [00:07:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's, it's [00:08:00] funny, it's funny. Sozo, so you both know Zoe. Zoe messaged me, about two weeks ago and said, Hey, so and so can't go to way up north. Can you glee for Florence and, and go. [00:08:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You'd have to go today. unfortunately as you and I spoke, I told you a, a story, a very personal story, right before we started recording. I could not go because of that, of course, but I almost hung out with you in Florence. [00:08:26] Linsday Coulter: Wow. Well, okay, listen, then we should ask the eight ball because you said, well, of course I would hang out with you at the next one. [00:08:32] Linsday Coulter: Let's see if the eight ball is going to align the stars for us. Yes, there will be no more personal BS that gets in the way. Let's see, will we hang out with Scott and the Imagen Crew at the next conference? [00:08:45] Timothy Muza: What do we got? [00:08:47] Linsday Coulter: I'm gonna shake it again.let's see what, what she's gonna say this time. [00:08:54] Linsday Coulter: Concentrate and ask again. You know what, it wants us to manifest it. And you know what? I am a big [00:09:00] believer in manifestation and therefore we will manifest us all hanging out very, very soon. Wants to [00:09:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: happen. So, so if we're doing, if we're doing routines, what do you think about We, ooh, yes. We go with the, the, the Workflows routine. [00:09:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: 100%. Let's do it. Let's get into it. So you guys gotta agree on a color and then you're both gonna answer the question. It's green all day for me. It's gotta be [00:09:20] Linsday Coulter: green. It has to be green. Green all day. Let's be green. [00:09:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: All right. All right. All right. So, Tim, so for those of you that are [00:09:26] Linsday Coulter: listening, Scott's pulling a card from his interview deck. [00:09:28] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. [00:09:29] Timothy Muza: If you're, if you're, again, if you're just listening, [00:09:31] Linsday Coulter: grow up, [00:09:31] Timothy Muza: grow up. [00:09:32] Linsday Coulter: First of all, [00:09:33] Timothy Muza: turn your laptop and phone on and open the YouTube app. [00:09:36] Linsday Coulter: If you're driving a car, we'll allow it. That's the only exception. [00:09:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Ah, so, so I'm gonna thumb through Tim. You said green. Lindsay, you're gonna tell me when to stop. [00:09:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. [00:09:47] Linsday Coulter: Stop. [00:09:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay, now you both gotta answer this. Okay. Whatever it is. I'm stressed. [00:09:53] Linsday Coulter: My face is hot. Okay. [00:09:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: All right. All right. When you're feeling sick, what makes you feel better? [00:09:59] Linsday Coulter: Oh, [00:10:00] man. Oh my God. Oh my God. [00:10:02] Timothy Muza: Well, I was feeling sick yesterday, Scott. the only thing that made me feel better was taking a bath and then napping for like six hours. [00:10:09] Timothy Muza: Oh, yeah. I love that. It's one of those things where my body will tell me before, like, it'll let me know that I'm not feeling well, because I'm been working for like, for two weeks straight Mm-Hmm. And it'll just kind of shut things down for me. Yes. Which is also a, is a blessing and a curse because I should be taking more time to manage my life in a way that is, not so extreme. [00:10:29] Linsday Coulter: Should, could, would, you know, should, could, [00:10:30] Timothy Muza: would, but, you know, money to be made, things to be created. Mm-Hmm. yeah, no, I, I'd say a bath and, and a, a nap. A nap. Really, really does me well. How about you, Lindsay? [00:10:41] Linsday Coulter: A nap is a critical thing for me. I'm a big time napper. My parents used to make fun of me for napping so much when I was a kid. [00:10:48] Linsday Coulter: And I was like, Winston Churchill took a nap every single day, every day. I then learned that like maybe I wasn't aspiring to be like Winston Churchill, it's all good. But, I was, he was just [00:10:57] Timothy Muza: cigars in his bed, didn't he? And took meals. And I'm [00:10:59] Linsday Coulter: inspired, [00:11:00] I am truly, truly inspired by this man. Okay. I would smoke a cigar in my bed fine if I didn't have a husband. [00:11:07] Linsday Coulter: so I'm a really big proponent of a nap. The other thing a nap does is it just kind of resets. You know, it gives you a little reset. Yeah. It's like, okay, we started off on the wrong foot here. Yeah. For me, I'm a really big power napper though, so it depends on how the gravity of the situation is. If I'm really unwell, 27 minutes, 20 minutes, minutes specifically. [00:11:25] Linsday Coulter: Okay. Any longer than 20 minutes. We're no longer having a nap so much as we're having a sleep. I love [00:11:31] Timothy Muza: a good sleep. Yeah. [00:11:31] Linsday Coulter: And, and that really is gonna throw off my circadian rhythm, which I'm really, adamant about. My thing that I do is I, I drink hydrolite. Okay. So, hi. Do you guys have Hydrolite Scott? [00:11:45] Linsday Coulter: Is that an American thing? [00:11:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I don't, I don't think we have that one, but we have all like a similar type of things. Okay. Yeah. Like [00:11:52] Linsday Coulter: little hydration things. Yeah. [00:11:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Because [00:11:54] Linsday Coulter: generally speaking, if I am unwell, it's probably,because a consequence of [00:12:00] my own actions that I shot two weddings in a row and then did five family sessions on the Sunday. [00:12:04] Linsday Coulter: And then I was like, did I drink any water yesterday? Did I drink any water? Yeah. But if I'm like really sick and we're talking flu sick and there's only one cure for that and it is, apple juice. I love an apple juice. I'm just like a 5-year-old and a concentrator. [00:12:19] Timothy Muza: Do you go pure? [00:12:20] Linsday Coulter: No, I actually have like a really specific kind. [00:12:21] Linsday Coulter: Okay. And Taylor is like husband of the year because anytime I'm sick he'll walk to the grocery store and goes and gets me. It's, it's, the label says mellow do. Oh, which do is DOUX, which is just French for the word mellow. Oh, okay. But literally we just call it in our household like mellow do, which is not at all, I don't know, it just says mellow on it. [00:12:40] Linsday Coulter: What's [00:12:40] Timothy Muza: the brand? [00:12:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Plug it. [00:12:42] Linsday Coulter: I have no idea. It's just some giant container. This [00:12:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: episode is sponsored by Mellow Juice. This apple [00:12:47] Linsday Coulter: juice, mellow de. Anyways, anybody that has tried it knows that it is the elite apple juice of choice. [00:12:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay, amazing. [00:12:52] Linsday Coulter: so, [00:12:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so I am not a napper, but when I am feeling sick, my body makes me nap a one. [00:12:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: mm-Hmm. [00:13:00] But in our family, we also have a saying that a shower will help everything. So if you're feeling sick, take a shower. [00:13:07] Linsday Coulter: Yeah, [00:13:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: that's it. Take a shower. So that's one. I mean, also medicine. Medicine helps. Yeah. Medicine's always [00:13:16] Linsday Coulter: a good idea. Perfect. You know what's so funny? Like, I don't know if this is, I think it's probably not an American thing. [00:13:20] Linsday Coulter: I always love chatting with our American friends 'cause I've always like playing this game. Like, is that a thing? Do you guys do that? Like, we literally live like a couple of hours from each other and I'm like, is that a thing? Do you guys do this? But, yeah, I feel like, in Canada we, lots of people are opposed to taking even like over the counter medicine. [00:13:36] Linsday Coulter: Mm. We're just like too holistic up here. Maybe not so much in Ontario, but definitely out west and out east people are like, have a shot of brandy. You don't need to have medication. Right. but yeah, a like a little, a little Advil might, might change your day, but definitely a, a hot shower, ending it on a cold note. [00:13:54] Linsday Coulter: That will probably do a really good reset. Yeah, for sure. Wow. I hope nobody's sick listening to this, but if you are, have a [00:14:00] nap, have a shower, drink some water, drink some. Get an Advil. Keep listening [00:14:03] Timothy Muza: or watching later. Meow dude. Yes. Yeah. Drink some apple juice. Scott, how are you giving advice? [00:14:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You good at it? [00:14:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I am. I, I do my best. Okay. I do my best. I like giving advice when asked and, and I do my best to give, whether it's from personal experience or from discussions I've had or things like that. I love it. [00:14:24] Linsday Coulter: Will you tell, will you tell our listeners like just a little bit about you and yourself, just so that they know where this fantastic advice is coming from? [00:14:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I've been a professional photographer since the early two thousands and, I started out, straight outta college shooting film and in the dark room. And this was the time when, you know, digital became a thing. I started out doing family sessions and cakes smash sessions and and headshots and all of that fun stuff. [00:14:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And, then just over time, you know, things have evolved. Yeah. And actually during the pandemic, my focus shifted. Pretty [00:15:00] dramatically. and organically shifted to pre predominantly photographing surprise proposals, which is a blast. So fun. Makes me, makes me feel like a spy all the time. And, so I thought, I've seen your photos. [00:15:11] Linsday Coulter: You honestly look like you shoot like a spy. 'cause no one, the people don't look like they even are aware that you're there. [00:15:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, they have no idea. Yeah, it's amazing. Zero idea. Yeah. I mean, the person who hired me does the person proposing does. But, but yeah, he's just stalking. I'm very good at, at like, if I'm in a public place where there's other photographers, I'm very good at pretending I'm with them. [00:15:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. [00:15:30] Linsday Coulter: Oh, smart. That's very smart. Smart. I have [00:15:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: literally hidden in trees and bushes. gotta do what you gotta do. What's your lens of choice? So, I, you know, I switched to mirrorless like most people have been doing for sure. Pre mirrorless, I was doing 70 to 200. Okay. and with a two x extender if needed, depending on how far I was. [00:15:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And I would just give up the aperture if I have to. It's fine. [00:15:50] Linsday Coulter: That's fine. Yeah. [00:15:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: but. but, and the reason why, why I was doing that is 'cause then I can quickly take off the extender if I needed to. Right. Smart. Rather than just go into a much longer lens. since [00:16:00] mirrorless, I am now using, Taylor's favorite lens, which is that 30 to one 50 for an Nikon Z. [00:16:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's good. Oh, [00:16:05] Linsday Coulter: nice. [00:16:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and I actually am trying to find out, and I'm predominantly shooting at one, at one 50 with this, but I'm trying to find out if the Nikon two x extender for the Z will work on that lens. And if it does, that's gonna be my go-to from here on. But [00:16:21] Linsday Coulter: I wish we could phone a friend and ask, but unfortunately we only have one television, so we'll have to find that information out for you after the, after the podcast, but I love that. [00:16:31] Linsday Coulter: Okay. And so you shoot proposals and [00:16:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. So I also work for Imagen how did you, yeah, yeah. How did you get involved with [00:16:38] Linsday Coulter: Imagen? [00:16:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I've been on the software service side since day one. I, I know myself too well. for many reasons. If, if you listen, you know, as a, for those listening to Workflows, this episode on Workflows, they know my backstory about being bullied and, and colorblindness Yep. [00:16:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And all this stuff. Right.for those listening other Shoot Your Shot side, I have gone through some [00:17:00] major crap grow growing up. and I know myself too well the, to the point where I knew that if I was shooting full time and that was my only source for income, I'd hate photography. Mm. And I don't wanna hate photography, so I do it. [00:17:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I've always been on the software and service side, educating and serving photographers, but also taking on client work when I want to. so the, the, the benefit of that, for those who are local to me is I get to refer a lot of people. That's awesome. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of jobs. Yeah. And just take on what I want when I have the time and things like that. [00:17:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. So, I've gone through a lot and I have, perspectives on things and Workflows for everything. And so yeah, that's, that's my, my, I guess my backstory and how I feel like I could give advice that could be beneficial for people. [00:17:50] Linsday Coulter: Well, speaking of advice. We have a question. Alright, so it's an anonymous question and well, once I read it, you'll understand why they felt like it needed to be anonymous. [00:17:59] Linsday Coulter: it's [00:18:00] not as racy as some of ours have been. Scott, I don't know if you heard, like we've had podcasts where photographers were like, I think that my client was trying to pick me up with her husband there during a boudoir session. Like we've had some like racy conversations. This one's not so racy, but I pulled it out of the, depths of our archives because I felt like it would really, be something that you personally will be able to help us answer. [00:18:24] Linsday Coulter: Tim and I have a certain skillset, but we are not parents. No. and so I think that. I think that you'll be a really great person to help us answer this question. So here we go. Mm-Hmm. Hi. I need help. Also, let me preface this by saying I'm so sorry that I didn't answer this person publicly then, but I did, I did message them back when it happened. [00:18:41] Linsday Coulter: 'cause I told them we're not gonna answer this on the podcast just yet, but here's my own anyways. Yeah, I'm, just so we don't think, like I left this person hanging for the last two months. Right. Hi, I need help. I'm in my third year business and have bitten off more than I can chew. I have kids and all their extracurriculars as well as a very busy family and wedding [00:19:00] photography business. [00:19:01] Linsday Coulter: I am so behind and my mental health is taking a toll. My clients are sending emails, checking in and I just keep trying to catch up. But can't, I don't feel like I can start outsourcing right now because I am too far behind. What do I do? [00:19:15] Outsourcing and Overcoming Challenges --- [00:19:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I'm happy to, to kick off advice. Hit it. so I am a father of two, and. [00:19:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I have children that have various, I'm not gonna say complications, but things going on. Right, sure. That, that, that take up a lot of my time and my wife's time to help with whatever they need. plus just life in general. So I'm, I totally feel anonymous. kind of weird to not say a person's name, but I know. [00:19:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Can we give the person a name? Let's just give it a name. Okay. What, what name, what name should we give it? Give this person. [00:19:45] Linsday Coulter: they seem nice. What's like a nice person's name? [00:19:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: we could just say Jane. Jane Doe. Right? Jane? We could say Jane. Jane. Sure. Let's talk to Jane. [00:19:54] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. I know. It feels weird to be like, sorry, anonymous, but yeah. [00:19:57] Linsday Coulter: Let's talk to Jane. Jane seems like a nice [00:20:00] person. [00:20:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah. So, for Jane, as much as it feels like you can't, you don't have the time or ability to outsource right now, I promise you that. If you do outsource certain areas of your business, it is going to free up that time for you to do what you need to with family, do what you need to otherwise that you're unable to do now, or you feel this pressure, on your shoulders to, to, to handle. [00:20:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it could be any part of your business. As I said, it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily have to be the editing or the culling or things like that, but those are very tedious parts of, of the business. Mm-Hmm. and I can share two quick stories to, just to sort of prove that Please, that this can help. Okay. [00:20:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: We would love that. We'd love to hear it. One is from Hannah Hall, who, if you, for those who are, listeners of, of the Workflows podcast, you can, you probably heard this episode already. If you're a listener of Shoot Your Shot, please go listen to Hannah's episode. It's one of the earlier [00:21:00] episodes. Hannah just was on her last wedding that she had to shoot for a season. [00:21:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And driving home with her husband. Okay. And got into a car accident, almost died. [00:21:14] Linsday Coulter: Oh my God. [00:21:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And her husband was injured, but not as bad as she was. She almost lost, I believe it was her right arm, and had to go through major surgery, surgeries to save her arm. And was really concerned about, I've got all this going on right in my personal life. [00:21:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I've got health issues to worry about. I am behind. I've got half a season of weddings to edit and deliver before the, you know, as I heal and before the next wedding season comes. [00:21:41] Linsday Coulter: Mm-Hmm. [00:21:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So I think it was after her third surgery when she discovered Imagen and tried it and realized, oh, it edits as good as I do. [00:21:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And now she ran that entire backlog through Imagen, and was able to deliver it while in her hospital bed recovering from three surgeries. [00:22:00] Good grief. Right? [00:22:00] Linsday Coulter: That's the craziest thing. [00:22:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. So you gotta be listening to her story. My gosh. Right. She, she obviously tells us much better, but that's just one proof of, of no matter what you're going through, outsourcing as, as scary as it might be, that little bit of work that it's gonna take to create a profile, for example, or even if it's A-A-C-R-M automation to create that automation, that little bit of work is going to save you all this time afterwards, right? [00:22:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-Hmm. to be able to allow you to, to, to get back to families and stuff like that. and the second story I wanna share is, another Imagen, Imagen customer that a got divorced and was very close to losing her home. Okay? So she's got kids, multiple kids, yep. And could not afford 'cause she wasn't working as much, could not afford to, to keep her home. [00:22:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And she discovered, Imagen at one of the big trade shows in the US, set up a profile [00:23:00] realized, oh, again, it can. Edit just the way I can and does it, like many say better than I can. [00:23:05] Linsday Coulter: Mm-Hmm. [00:23:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and went to, her daughter's dance school and shot, you know, it was one of her few clients, shot the dance school, shot all the photos for the dance school, and they loved it. [00:23:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And then she got hired by additional dance schools to photograph all the dancers at the school. And then it piled on and piled on. And look, now she's making a lot of money in her business, taking on more dance schools that she couldn't do before. 'cause now she can call and edit way better and faster than she ever could before. [00:23:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And she saved her house. [00:23:37] Linsday Coulter: Wild. [00:23:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Like, so again, just to reiterate, no matter what you've got going on, if you're outsource, you're getting the time back afterwards. So that little bit of time upfront, it's upfront. Yeah. What you need is gonna save time in the long run. [00:23:52] Timothy Muza: And it doesn't even need to be that, like, that much time upfront. [00:23:54] Timothy Muza: Like, I think we were discussing this beforehand, what we're gonna talk about. Mm-Hmm. and like. The [00:24:00] idea that you can just use one of the talent profiles in Imagen Mm-Hmm, yep. Just to get yourself started. and then you can refine as you go is, is, you know, great you can find a talent profile that's close enough to your style and be like, that's good enough. [00:24:12] Timothy Muza: I'm sure my clients won't notice. You can also [00:24:13] Linsday Coulter: even add your own preset on afterwards. Exactly. Like I made an absolute Frankenstein. Yeah, yeah. You did the same thing to get started. So I used one of the talent profiles to get started. Yeah. Just to get the edit consistent across the board, because I had thousands of images over the past years, but I didn't feel any, like, they were like incredibly consistent editing wise. [00:24:34] Linsday Coulter: Right. Because I had tried so many different random outsourcing companies. Like I had tried all of the companies that actually had, supposedly, although I have skeptic skepticism about this, they supposedly had an actual person editing each file. Yeah. I doubt they did. So sometimes I would get things back that I'm like, okay, it's good. [00:24:52] Linsday Coulter: It's not, it's not at all like the last wedding you edited for me, but like. For me to get this out the door, these clients will be happy with it. [00:25:00] It's not how I would've done this, but it is a well edited and consistent wedding from start to finish. And you know, I've been where this person is just without the kids aspect of it. [00:25:11] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. Feeling like you're in the weeds and you're like, you know what? I need to get this thing out there. Mm-Hmm. And this is very, very good. It's just not, it's not necessarily consistent with the rest of the work that I always put out. So I didn't really wanna make a profile based on what I had. Yeah. that was a really big barrier for me that I felt like, well, I don't really know how to get over that. [00:25:30] Linsday Coulter: I loved my preset and I loved the, color grading that my preset did. Absolutely. So really all I did was just, I would run the Imagen talent profile on all of my images, and then after, once I've pulled it back into Lightroom, apply my preset, do a global. Sync on all of them, minus the adjustments that Imagen had done that I liked and wanted to keep. [00:25:53] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. and that's how I created my own talent pro. not my own talent profile, my own profile that I've then customized and now I have like, I think [00:26:00] 90,000 images built Amazing. Built into my profile. but yeah, I think you did the same thing. And that's sort like what I've taught most people that I know to do. [00:26:07] Linsday Coulter: 'cause I'm like, yeah, maybe you do feel this like sort of sense of overwhelm even without feeling in the weeds. I feel like it can be a daunting task to just get started with any new thing, whether it's a CRM, whether it's any sort of new process in your business, it can feel really daunting Absolutely. [00:26:23] Linsday Coulter: To make a drastic change. it is the change that has absolutely changed like both of our lives. Yeah. For the better. But I think taking a step back, Yeah, I think there's a couple of things that I want to tell this person and anybody who's listening to this, and I think this, this episode's coming out really at the perfect time because every single year I'm in like Facebook groups. [00:26:45] Linsday Coulter: I'm in the Imagen Facebook group. I'm in like the unscripted Facebook group I'm in, still a few, and I have my own Facebook group as well. Every single year, June, July, and August hit and people start posting almost this same [00:27:00] question word for word. Mm-Hmm. You know, almost the same thing, word for word. Hey, what do you guys do when you are so far behind? [00:27:08] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. Like, maybe I should have caught this a couple of weeks ago and made some changes, but here I am, you know, and I keep on adding. Shoots every single week to this list of, to-dos. And I keep getting busier and I keep getting pulled in multiple directions, and I have family commitments, and I have personal commitments, and I'm just adding to the list. [00:27:29] Linsday Coulter: Mm-Hmm. Like what do I do? My first recommendation is to take some deep breaths. Yeah. Go outside. Touch grass and touch grass. Yeah. Because there is nothing worse than that feeling of I will never get out of this. Yeah. The first thing you need to know is of course you will. Yeah. The second thing you need to know is that your clients are human beings. [00:27:54] Linsday Coulter: And they just want an update. Yeah. So if you, if the stressor of your clients, 'cause this person [00:28:00] mentioned, she mentioned, Jane mentioned that she was getting emails from her clients checking in. And also, this is the other thing that I noticed at this time of year photographers, this is a pet peeve of mine. [00:28:09] Linsday Coulter: Go for it. When photographers post on their public Instagram and Facebook, whatever their social channels are, being like I am behind on editing here is when you can expect your photos like it's supposed to be this like public service announcement. Just so everybody knows I've been busy and I'm behind. [00:28:30] Timothy Muza: You're making your customers nervous. [00:28:31] Linsday Coulter: You're telling [00:28:33] Timothy Muza: on yourself [00:28:33] Linsday Coulter: anywhere from 2000 people to say 80,000 people depending on where you're at on your following [00:28:39] Timothy Muza: current and prospective clients, all [00:28:41] Linsday Coulter: these people that you. Kind of screwed up your workflow. [00:28:45] Timothy Muza: Ugh. [00:28:45] Linsday Coulter: You didn't really have it dialed in. You grew your business faster than your Workflows allowed. [00:28:51] Linsday Coulter: Eyes are [00:28:51] Timothy Muza: bigger than your stomach and we [00:28:52] Linsday Coulter: love that for you. [00:28:53] Timothy Muza: Yeah, [00:28:53] Linsday Coulter: this is a transformational moment. However, for the 20 people maybe that you need to update, write [00:29:00] yourself a little email template. I know it's painful to humble yourself and have to get down. Yeah. And say, I am so sorry. I am in the weeds here. [00:29:09] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. To send that email out is a very scary thing to tell your clients that you're behind on their wedding, to tell your family clients, Hey, your newborn session's gonna be coming back to you late, but it will give you the gift of people not checking in. And also. You will find out which clients are actually really in need of their images and which ones are like, versus just curious, which, hey, you can chill. [00:29:35] Linsday Coulter: Yeah, I just wanted an update. That's because we are customer service people and they really just want to know [00:29:41] Timothy Muza: you're still thinking about them and you're still on their list. I think that's one important thing to mention, Lindsay, is that fact that like, although these emails that we have in our inboxes of things to do and things to complete and you know, tasks, that's our whole existence for that time. [00:29:55] Timothy Muza: When we feel like we're in the weeds and we feel like this is everything. It's a [00:30:00] small footnote in a lot of our clients' lives. They also have a task list of things that they're worrying about, that they're stacked up against and they just wanna send this out to get something back. Eventually. They're not weighing their entire existence on us completing this one task for them 100%. [00:30:14] Timothy Muza: Although it feels like a mountain to us, it's typically a mole hill for a lot of our clients. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. The other point you made that, that was really good is whenever I feel like I'm in the weeds, I know that that's a. Signal to myself, I need to take a day off. Yes. Which feels incredibly antithetical to the idea of like, that's not how you get ahead of things, but to give myself the reminder that, oh, I need a day off. [00:30:34] Timothy Muza: So that I understand and remember what it feels like to, be, be happy and, and, and give myself that kind of end goal in, in, in my mind of like, oh, this is what it's gonna feel like when all these tasks are done. Mm-Hmm. I can attack things the next day in an itemized list that makes me feel good about completing them one by one to know that like the day I had yesterday where I, I took the day off. [00:30:55] Timothy Muza: I can have that in a week. I can have that in three days. I can have that in a month and know that I have that kind [00:31:00] of end goal in mind. [00:31:01] Linsday Coulter: And it doesn't even have to be a day. No, it could be Give yourself a couple of hours. Yes. Yeah. Give yourself the time to go for a walk. To drink some water. Yes. To have a shower, to have a nap, whatever that might be. [00:31:12] Linsday Coulter: But just center yourself a little bit because I think, you know, while posting on a Facebook group might feel like the option that's the right one. It's actually probably the worst thing you could be doing because you're gonna get feedback from a bunch of people with a bunch of varying opinions [00:31:27] Timothy Muza: who don't live in your neighborhood, [00:31:28] Linsday Coulter: they don't know what you're talking about. [00:31:30] Linsday Coulter: You're probably gonna get some shade thrown at you from other photographers that are like, how could you get this far behind? I could never, you know what I mean? Like, you should have done this, you should have done this. You can should your way into a deep state of depression. Not good. So. [00:31:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So I have, I have three things to, to, two things to, to bring up or to, to comment on. [00:31:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: One question for you both. the first two things are, I find that, going for a walk extremely helpful. I mean, you know, as I [00:32:00] said, like I've got my full-time job, but I'm also shooting, I'm also being a husband, I'm also being a father. Like, there's so much going on, right? and I'm not complaining. [00:32:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: This is life, right? Mm-Hmm. the weather is beautiful now here in New Jersey at least. It's beautiful right now. So every single day I am going for a mile or mile to two mile walk every single day. Blessed, sometimes I'm doing it while on a call. If I don't have to be on camera. If I don't have to be at a computer, I am taking that call while walking because love that. [00:32:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I find that it just mentally is so much better, right? [00:32:34] Linsday Coulter: Mm-Hmm. [00:32:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and, what was the second thing I wanted? [00:32:37] Balancing Work and Personal Life --- [00:32:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Just,I don't even remember what the second thing was, but then, I have a question for you, which is, how often do you find yourselves needing to take a day or even a few hours Mm-Hmm. [00:32:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Throughout one day, in your lives. 'cause again, you both may not have kids, but you got pets and you've got, you've got spouses and you've got lives beyond your [00:33:00] businesses. So how often do you find yourself having to take a day, let's say? [00:33:05] Timothy Muza: Great question. I think I'm maybe once every two weeks, which is not enough. [00:33:12] Timothy Muza: I know it's not enough. [00:33:13] Linsday Coulter: No wonder you were having a meltdown yesterday. Timbo, yeah. Yesterday. I, [00:33:16] Timothy Muza: I suffer from seasonal allergies and like you said, Scott, it's beautiful in, in, the Garden state, New Jersey. Yep. it's also very beautiful here in Waterloo, Ontario. and with that the trees are blooming with that comes pollen and things that are yes [00:33:28] Timothy Muza: less, good for my face. And so I find that even, you know, on, on the best days, my immune system can just take a break and just say, Hey, no, you're gonna, you're gonna stop being,so much of a productive human being. We're just gonna knock you on your ass for a while. Yeah. and those are the days I, I end up taking off a full day. [00:33:44] Timothy Muza: Mm-Hmm. But if I take like half days every week or a couple hours a day, I, those, those days don't happen. Those full blackout days where I'm just relegated to the couch or the bed or the tub outta necessity just to be able to breathe and, and be a human being. Those happen way [00:34:00] less when I actually take intentional days. [00:34:01] Timothy Muza: Mm-Hmm. So, I know it's kinda a cliche to like work seven days a week and like that's, that's the grind culture, but I, I think if I take like a day off, like if it's a Monday or Wednesday, I'm a lot better. Like once a week. What are you doing, Lindsay? What's your, [00:34:12] Linsday Coulter: yeah, I mean, it ta it changes based on the season, as you mentioned. [00:34:16] Linsday Coulter: Absolutely. And we've been talking about, you know, right now I know that I am in a season of. [00:34:21] Intentional Time Off --- [00:34:21] Linsday Coulter: Busyness and work, and I truly love it and I truly do enjoy it. I am a huge proponent of scheduling time off in advance of looking at your schedule for the summer, for the fall, knowing thankfully, I'm 10 years into this, right? [00:34:36] Linsday Coulter: So I screwed up the first like six years. I didn't schedule time in. I was constantly chasing, catching up, catching my breath. Yep. Trying to find windows of time for myself. I was taking forced time off because I was drowning, right? Yeah. I was working. Well into the evening, most nights trying to catch up on my editing. [00:34:58] Linsday Coulter: I was working two, three weddings a [00:35:00] weekend, then shooting all day Sunday. And then I would always lie to myself and tell myself Monday, Tuesday I was gonna take off. But Monday, Tuesday is the day that generally my clients are right in front of their computer saying, hi, how are you? I'm avoiding work today. [00:35:14] Linsday Coulter: What are you up to? and so I've just gotten better at, at booking intentional time off, whether that be, so for me it's long weekends. I don't work any long weekends, because my, extended family has a beautiful cottage up north. So I try to do that. and, and then I would say I take one day a week off and I say off. [00:35:34] Linsday Coulter: Very loosely. Yeah. Very, very loosely. [00:35:37] Timothy Muza: You still checking in? Are you still checking in? Whatcha you doing? Yeah, [00:35:39] Linsday Coulter: so I still answer emails those days. that's a gift I give to myself because I don't wanna come back the day after a day off and feel like I just am immediately into like, almost like the Sunday scaries on my day off. [00:35:51] Linsday Coulter: Yeah, that sounds terrible for me. Yeah. So I, I mean [00:35:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I think that's reasonable. Yeah, I think that's reasonable to just do the, do the bare absolute bare minimum. Minimum on the days off I think [00:36:00] is totally reasonable. [00:36:01] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. [00:36:01] Finding Joy in Work --- [00:36:01] Linsday Coulter: And then the other thing that I think that it's important to remind myself of and any other working photographer is most of my days that I'm working aside from wedding days, they feel like days off. [00:36:12] Linsday Coulter: To be honest, I am blessed. Yeah. I really feel so, so fortunate in the work that I do, that I drive through the countryside multiple hours. A you go the cows, I literally. At the beginning and end of an engagement session, I will take the long way home and go do cow portraits at Sunset. Why wouldn't I Literally, why wouldn't I? [00:36:32] Linsday Coulter: Because that's blessed. You know, I will meet up with my girlfriends for a tea or a beverage or something after a shoot. I listen to my favorite podcasts on the drive. I really feel like I romanticize my life. Yeah. Even if I am working seven days a week. and there are most summers, I would say, windows of time where I work three weeks in a row. [00:36:55] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. Without one single full day off. And only [00:37:00] because I find. The joy in all of those things. Do I really love it? Now, obviously that is gonna be different for everyone. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's very helpful that all of my closest friends have similar jobs or similar lifestyles that allow for this to happen. [00:37:16] Linsday Coulter: My husband, socialize husband has the same thing and he shoots weddings with me. So we spend a lot of time together on those times. But then also, you know, well he doesn't always shoot weddings with me. I shouldn't say that. We get to shoot together fairly often every once, you know, throughout the season. [00:37:28] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. And then, you know, the one thing that I do find to be hard is that sunset is later. Yeah. So it's actually so funny that I say like, oh, like the seasons are different generally come the fall. I am like, thank goodness for an early sunset because. June, July, August, I am shooting sometimes an early morning sunrise. [00:37:52] Linsday Coulter: Shoot. Like this morning I did a newborn session at eight o'clock in the morning, an hour away from home. Yeah. So I left the house at six 30 this morning [00:38:00] and now we're podcasting. Love that for us. And then later this evening I'll have an engagement session that will end at nine o'clock at night. So that's a very full day. [00:38:10] Linsday Coulter: Right. And you've not [00:38:10] Timothy Muza: even done it like you're done at that point then I have to come [00:38:12] Linsday Coulter: home, do the backup. Yeah. Thank God for Imagen. Yes. Run it through a call and in an edit and I at least can feel like it's processed and then my portion of that where I'm gonna run through it and do my retouching and all of that. [00:38:26] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. That can be in a week from now, but I'm not stressed about the weight of having shot that. Yeah. Yeah. Scott, I think we talked about this maybe on the episode that I, recorded with you of Workflows that I used to feel afraid come, you know, my busy family session season because I would shoot. [00:38:46] Linsday Coulter: Five sessions on a weekend. Yeah. And every single click, I'd be like, this is going to be painful. The call and edit that I'm gonna have. Yeah. Like, and I, I couldn't be present [00:39:00] in those shoots because all I was just thinking was, you should shoot less [00:39:03] Timothy Muza: the post-production that you're putting into this, you should [00:39:04] Linsday Coulter: shoot less because the after, you know the impact of this is gonna be painful. [00:39:10] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. And now I'm like, hell no. I'm not gonna limit that by any means because I have so much extra time. Yeah. Yeah. In my day. [00:39:19] Managing Client Expectations --- [00:39:19] Linsday Coulter: So for Jane, I will say, touch grass, take some deep breaths, get in touch with your clients. Respond to them with empathy. Yeah. Lead with a sense of like, first of all. how lucky are you as a photographer that they're excited to see the work that you shot? [00:39:35] Linsday Coulter: They truly believe that the work that you guys made together is gonna be exceptional. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why they're excited about it. Yes. Then just ask some questions. Are you gonna be okay with generally this timeline? Does that work for you? And if it doesn't work for you, like, would you be okay with me maybe giving you some previews back or something like that just to like, keep the monsters at [00:39:56] Timothy Muza: me? [00:39:56] Timothy Muza: You can triage that way you can decide, for yourself based on what your clients react to. [00:40:00] Yeah. Like what is truly, truly, truly on on fire. Who's mad? Who's big mad? Yeah. Who's real big mad at me. [00:40:05] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. And then, and then, you know. [00:40:07] Productivity Tips and Tools --- [00:40:07] Linsday Coulter: I use a pro, a productivity planner. I'm a huge, huge proponent of a productivity planner. [00:40:12] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. I actually created my own productivity planner. that basically you triage your week and your day and you break them down because the other thing that really sucks when you're in the weeds is that your brain tends to get foggy. Yeah, right. It's hard to even know where do I start? Here? You're looking at a to-do list that just looks like this, like a ticker, and you're thinking, I can't even begin to tell you where I'm gonna start with that. [00:40:37] Linsday Coulter: So I use a productivity planner that breaks down a week, and in the week I will say, here's what I need to get done this week. And it's not a never ending to-do list. It's genuinely what I actually, realistically feel like I could accomplish within that week. You almost ov always o underestimate yourself when you'd actually do this and you work productively, you almost always underestimate what you can accomplish.[00:41:00] [00:41:00] Linsday Coulter: So I will put in that list a really realistic. Attempt at what I think I could do in a week. Yeah. And then starting the night before I actually write it in the night before, because I, I don't need the first task of my day to think about what I'm gonna do. Yeah. So Sunday night, say, I will plan the next morning Monday, here are my three, and I'm talking literally only three most important tasks of that day. [00:41:24] Linsday Coulter: So the first one is I'm gonna email my clients and say, hi. Sorry. The second one is that you're going to prioritize the thing that is probably the latest and the thing that's been you've, you know, in your gut which one that one is, right. Like everybody knows. So that's the second one. And then the third one is just whatever one you think might be the fastest so that you can just get something checked off maybe. [00:41:45] Linsday Coulter: Right. Mm-Hmm. And you start like, I almost, I almost do things like top and bottom. Top and bottom. Yeah. Like scariest and biggest and then fastest that I can just start checking some stuff off the list. Right. Just to, just to [00:41:55] Timothy Muza: move the fat out of that body of that list. Yeah. [00:41:57] Linsday Coulter: And. I, I mean [00:42:00] probably somewhere in this 1, 2, 3, you'll realize, okay, I can breathe now. [00:42:06] Linsday Coulter: Now is the time for you to figure out your future plan, which mm-Hmm. If it were us, obviously, listen, Tim and I don't work for Imagen, but you can Imagen that we are really true proponents of it. I would not recommend if you're in the weeds signing up for something that is an outsourcing company that you have to do an onboarding with. [00:42:28] Linsday Coulter: Absolutely not. No. Do not do a thing where you have to have a, an onboarding call with them to learn your profile and where they have to analyze your stuff and it's an individual, and then you have to go back and forth with them and give them your edits and tell them, this is why. This is, Hey, I think this is good, but actually I really wish that you would've done this differently. [00:42:48] Linsday Coulter: Do not do that. Yeah. That is not. The solution. That's not the solution immediately or long term, first of all, I can promise you. Yeah. If you don't believe me, talk to Lindsay five years [00:43:00] ago and see how well outsourcing was working out. Talk to [00:43:01] Timothy Muza: me last year when I was outsourcing my video editing. Like that was truly a nightmare. [00:43:06] Timothy Muza: Every time I would outsource to this company who was wonderful d from Ukraine, they would give me a different editor and a different style. Brutal for the video. Mm-Hmm. I just felt like this was not consistent. It's not what my couples wanted. I ended up going back and forth with the company five times in edit just to get things right on top of the fact that I shoot everything in raw format. [00:43:22] Timothy Muza: So I had to make proxy files of the video footage and then upload that. That took like a week, not a week physically, but it took a long time. And then to get the project file back, and it's a different editing style because I had to reconnect the 4K footage to the proxy seven 20 files. This is a nightmare of things I'm describing, and if you don't understand it, terrifying. [00:43:39] Linsday Coulter: I hate it all. I [00:43:40] Timothy Muza: barely understand it myself. it, it became such a chore to the fact that I'm like to the point where I was like, I could just do this myself. And probably half is the time. Time. The other thing is that shit's [00:43:49] Linsday Coulter: expensive. [00:43:49] Timothy Muza: It's not cheap that, well, actually [00:43:51] Linsday Coulter: it wasn't that bad. Well, maybe your video exci, but okay. [00:43:54] Linsday Coulter: I'm talking about expensive [00:43:55] Timothy Muza: time. The time I took Yes. To, to do this extra work was costing me [00:44:00] money because the time I spent outsourcing and me creating efficiencies was a, frigging nightmare because I was paying anywhere, I was being paid for those hours. I [00:44:07] Linsday Coulter: was paying anywhere from three 50 to 400 US per wedding. [00:44:11] Timothy Muza: Yeah. [00:44:11] Linsday Coulter: To get back weddings that I would have to re-edit myself. And you're getting them back thinking this is done and you're like, sweet, I'm gonna export this and deliver it within the next week. Yeah. And you have to start from scratch and basically start over. That is not what Jane wants to do. No. [00:44:25] Linsday Coulter: Right. Jane and anybody else that's in the Facebook forums, right, like. You know, Scott, can you actually like for people that maybe don't know, 'cause we talk about Imagen a lot, but we're not talking about the, like, the logistics of getting started. Like, so if somebody is in this process and okay, they've checked off the first few boxes, they're like, we've emailed my clients, I'm, I'm feeling a little bit less panicked twos day one job is that I wanna get started with Imagen what does, what does the onboarding process look like for something like that? [00:44:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, you know, so Imagen's turning four at the end of July. Okay. So we've been doing this for four [00:45:00] years, doing amazing AI editing. Okay. July, 2024, just in case somebody's listening to this 20 years from now Sure. At the time we're recording. Yeah. so, there's now many ways. When we first started, there was two ways to get started. [00:45:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Now there's many ways. Okay. So your options are, and I'll go in order of what I think is the, the best for each individual person. personal AI profile. Right. This is where it learns from 3000 or more previous edits that you've done in the Adobe ecosystem. Whether it's, it has to be in the Adobe camera, raw ecosystem. [00:45:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So Lightroom classic Lightroom Bridge, Photoshop using Adobe Camera Raw. Okay. 3000 or more photos. The second would be, a light personal AI profile, which is based on a Lightroom classic preset combined with a short survey to personalize that preset to you. Both of these learn from you over time. Okay? [00:45:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: The one that's based on the previous edits is the most accurate that you can have to get it closest to you. The light is [00:46:00] okay, but it does get better over time, [00:46:02] Timothy Muza: right? [00:46:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It is, that is very fast. That takes 10 seconds to get started. So that is very fast. then there is somebody sharing a profile with you. [00:46:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So Lindsay, you have shared your profile with me to do some demos for Imagen, right? Yeah. So I can edit with your profile anytime I want. I love that for you. My, my, that share, right? So, I mean, I'm always demoing your photos, edited with your profile when I demo Imagen, because you let me do this. [00:46:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, of course. and, and so that's another option, right? Find somebody that's already using Imagen, that can share their profile with you, takes nothing for you to get started. That at that point. Yeah. then there is buying a profile from somebody. So, just to throw out a name, of somebody, Vanessa Joy, for example, has two profiles available for sale with, Imagen you can buy them both in one package, I believe, or separate, I can't remember. [00:46:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But you can buy that. It actually gets installed as a personal AI profile on your account. Wow. So you're starting with her [00:47:00] profile, but it's personal to you. So it learns from you over time as if it was, as if you started yours As you started. Yeah. Yep. and, I think, I think that's it right now. Right? [00:47:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Well, or a talent profile. Talent profile. I didn't mention talent profile. That's the, the easiest starting point as well. Yeah. Yeah. So the talent profiles, but there's like 16 of them, something built in, from like Susan St. Striping, charm Pena. there's so many in a variety of different styles. Color black and white. [00:47:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Most are raw. Two of 'em are JPEG right now. and actually there's two that are met for real estate that are Imagen is made, oh, that's cool. That is also available. and, and those ones are, [00:47:41] Linsday Coulter: those ones are included in a subscription, is that correct? They're included, yeah. They'll cost [00:47:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: anything extra to try. [00:47:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:47:45] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. And. [00:47:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Go ahead. [00:47:48] Linsday Coulter: No, no. I was just gonna say, the other thing that I wanna point out is that the price point is, is really truly unbelievable. Right? Like, I remember switching from this thing where I was like, I really need to start limiting the number [00:48:00] of images that I'm like calling and putting into a wedding because they, it was just so expensive. [00:48:04] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. and also bad. So, so I was like, I, I was really starting to limit the number of photos that I'd put into something. but you know, you pay per image with Imagen, right? But it's, it's, it's really low. What's the, I'm gonna get it wrong, but you tell me. Is it 5 cents, [00:48:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: 5 cents a photo at the base? [00:48:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Crazy. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's very affordable. you can, you can start as a pay as you go plan, which is what we always recommend. Mm-Hmm. There we do have other, you know, annual plans, but we definitely recommend starting as pay as you go and figure out what you need. so for someone in Jane's case, you know, if, you know you just need to deliver a hundred photos for family session or whatever it might be. [00:48:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You know, it's not gonna cost that much. And the, you could even put that, you know, the cost that it would cost you to edit with Imagen into your price Of course. So that way you're not eating it. Your, your clients are basically paying that on top of your regular fee and they don't have to know, right? No, they don't have to know that AI [00:49:00] is doing it. [00:49:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's what [00:49:00] Timothy Muza: I did with, with shooting Super eight. I added that as a, as a, you know Yeah. A line item that they [00:49:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: don't [00:49:05] Timothy Muza: know about on the cost [00:49:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: of [00:49:06] Timothy Muza: OMI [00:49:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: videos. I, I wanna, I wanna quickly mention something. [00:49:09] Healthy Boundaries and Communication --- [00:49:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So you mentioned the productivity planner. Yeah. So as we're, as we're giving this advice to Jane, I wanna point out that not everything that you need to do to make your business more efficient with your life happening around you has to cost you money. [00:49:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. So whether you're,designing yourself a per productivity planner, or buying one and then making photocopies, whatever it might be, right? Mm-Hmm. for like ongoing, if you buy a one pager and then make copies, right? It doesn't cost you too much money, but. A free option is write in Apple reminders, right? [00:49:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You can actually group categorize a reminder list and then convert it to a Kanban style, so you can actually turn Apple reminders into a productivity planner on your phone, on your computer, on your, on iPad, whatever it might be. And, and, this is what I [00:50:00] should, [00:50:00] Timothy Muza: Scott, this is exactly, exactly what you're using today. [00:50:02] Timothy Muza: We'll complete and then I have all the list of things I need to do, and then I can, yeah, this is the best. It comes free with every, you know. Yeah. We should definitely look into buying Lindsay's, are they for sale? [00:50:11] Linsday Coulter: they're for, they're available within my course. Oh, lovely. Than book.com. You can get, my productivity planner. [00:50:16] Linsday Coulter: but yeah, I think, you know, everybody has to do what's right for them. I really appreciate that. a tangible paper. Yeah. You like to write things out? I'm, I'm a paper and pen kind of gal. Yeah. so I really love a paper and pen. I feel like it's 50 50 people are very split on this when it comes to writing out their tasks. [00:50:32] Linsday Coulter: Should [00:50:33] Timothy Muza: be, this should be, you know, it should be able to do whatever you want, but it needs to be [00:50:34] Linsday Coulter: your own thing. Being able to [00:50:35] Timothy Muza: cross a thing out or check a thing off. [00:50:37] Linsday Coulter: I need less time on my phone. Yes. I need, I need need, to have one foot out the door on my devices at all times. Please, please. [00:50:45] Timothy Muza: This is something that came up on a, a podcast that's not related to photography. [00:50:48] Timothy Muza: It's called the, the Dough Boys. And they just review, chain restaurants. But one of the co-hosts named Mike, he talks about doing, cell phone free Sundays. And I thought, what a delightful idea. 'cause I'm so tired of [00:51:00] looking at my phone and I was like, could I feasibly do this? you know, kind of like to Mm-Hmm. [00:51:04] Timothy Muza: Put myself. Out of the world of productivity and I, I'm like, there's not a day of the week where I can't be connected, which is the saddest thought. Mm-Hmm. I can think of, but I thought maybe I could do like noon from one day to noon to the next day. I'm like, that's one way I could actually Sure. Take a day off from my cell phone completely. [00:51:20] Timothy Muza: I dunno, it's a pilot project. Might not do I first all. I [00:51:23] Linsday Coulter: believe that you could. One thing I like to say is I'm not a doctor. [00:51:27] Timothy Muza: Okay. [00:51:28] Linsday Coulter: I'm not a doctor. What, what do you need to reach me for at this hour? I see what you mean. Okay. What could I possibly need? Right? It's my way of reminding myself when I, that's that's my own verbal touch grass moment for Lindsay. [00:51:41] Linsday Coulter: Like, I, I, you're not going into surgery anytime soon. I truly do appreciate that. Photographers on a whole, we really take our careers and our businesses seriously. We appreciate the gravity of our role in people's lives. Absolutely. And how important, our work is. [00:52:00] However, I am not going into surgery anytime soon. [00:52:02] Linsday Coulter: I'm not saving lives. I am documenting special moments for people. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but I'm documenting them no less. But I am. I'm not going into surgery. I probably wouldn't turn my phone off on like a day. That potentially could be a wedding day or something like that. Yeah, that's something like the Saturday, Sunday [00:52:19] Timothy Muza: could not happen, [00:52:20] Linsday Coulter: but yeah, 100%. [00:52:22] Linsday Coulter: There are many days, many days, many, many days that I literally leave my phone at home. Yeah. And it's usually unintentional. I'll like, forget it inside. And Taylor's like, oh, do you wanna go back and get it? And then I'm like, absolutely not actually. Yeah. I'm so good. What could anyone need to reach me for right now? [00:52:38] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. And you know, this is actually interesting. When I, I was working as a camp counselor, I would work at, a full-time, like overnight camp every summer. By the way, you were [00:52:48] Timothy Muza: what, 18 or 17? Watching 16, 15, watching over 15 year olds like the, the Gap. Yeah. I started there when I was 16. The fact that you were an counselor for, for other children who were less than a year old. [00:52:57] Linsday Coulter: I was the administrator of the camp when I was 17 [00:53:00] years old. I like, don't think I was legally allowed to write checks at that point. I don't know so much responsibility I like was running their, their finances, which no one should have let me do. How, who was the adult who put [00:53:09] Timothy Muza: you in that position? [00:53:10] Linsday Coulter: An actual accountant, which they determined that was a bad idea after me. [00:53:13] Linsday Coulter: They stopped letting teenagers have that job. So you can tell that I did a really good one, but I worked at a camp, full-time. Okay. Literally seven days a week, from the end of June until, until the week before the, the Labor Day long weekend in September. Yeah. And, you know, you're a teenager. You have a cell phone. [00:53:34] Linsday Coulter: At that time we had the Kie keyboard. Okay. So we're not talking like, or T nine maybe even actually is what I had. I had a T nine keyboard, but I was a big texter. Yeah. And I felt like that was my connection to my friends back home because the camp that I worked at was an hour and a half from my home. [00:53:52] Linsday Coulter: Right. And I would see my friends maybe, like if I was lucky, once every few weeks, I would go back for an evening, like [00:54:00] when the camp flipped over from one session to the next. And so I, I would get caught on my cell phone, from the director. Like, I would like go and sneak into a corner and, and respond to a text message really quickly. [00:54:12] Timothy Muza: Right, right. [00:54:13] Linsday Coulter: And it was probably not all that quick. [00:54:14] Timothy Muza: because t, well, T nine was pretty quick, but T nine, I got really fast at it. I missed T nine. [00:54:19] Linsday Coulter: Yeah, I don't. but, Steph, the director of the camp was like, why do you feel the need to be communicating with people? Like they know where you are. They know what you're up to. [00:54:28] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. Like, not all that long ago, the only way for people to reach counselors at camp was to write them a letter and you would respond by letter. So she was sort of saying like, what, why aren't you more present? Why aren't you feeling like you can be here? And I said, well, they reached out so I feel like I have to respond. [00:54:46] Linsday Coulter: And she said, the faster you respond, you're training them to know that you're that responsive. Yeah. Yeah. So start training the people that are contacting you to not expect an immediate response. Yeah. So I downloaded that into my [00:55:00] business because the first couple of years I was incredibly responsive to literally everything. [00:55:04] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. I would get. Clients contact me on Sunday night and I would feel really resentful and then I would respond. And now I'm literally training my clients. And with weddings, I have a new batch of them every single year. So I'm retraining every single year. I have boundaries in place and I tell them when I book, by the way, email's always the best way to reach me. [00:55:21] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. The week of your wedding, by all means, call or text me. Yep. So that they know like, oh, so that means I shouldn't just call or text you on like a random Saturday or Sunday night. You [00:55:29] Timothy Muza: see myself from their date. Yeah. [00:55:30] Linsday Coulter: What do you think of this? Or whatever. [00:55:32] Timothy Muza: Yeah. [00:55:32] Linsday Coulter: and then, and then standing by that, so I do still get text messages from brides because that's their preferred way of contacting me. [00:55:40] Linsday Coulter: but I have to remind them like, it's actually quite critical that we keep this all in one communications thread. yeah. For many, many reasons. But, which is [00:55:47] Timothy Muza: something we've said before, because having all, all of your communication, whether it be like. Small details or large details in one space for, for both of us, which is inbox email. [00:55:56] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. [00:55:57] Timothy Muza: Is so helpful just to be able to reference something really quickly. [00:55:59] Linsday Coulter: Mm-Hmm. [00:56:00] And so if somebody drops you a DM in Instagram grief saying like, Hey, can we make sure we get photos like this? I will take a screenshot of it, or even a link of the reel or whatever that they sent me. Smart. The next day. If it's an evening and it's like outside of the hours that I feel like responding, I will respond by email saying, Hey, I got your dm. [00:56:20] Linsday Coulter: Thank you so much. I love that idea. Yeah. Like I still, I don't wanna disregard what they've said entirely. Yeah.and, and I probably don't say by the way, I think, you know, that I like to email, like, based on my responding by email, they've, they've clued they're aware. Yeah. But I like to think of that like sort of summer camp mentality of I just don't need to be accessible to people at all hours of the day, 24 hours. [00:56:42] Linsday Coulter: Just because they reach out doesn't mean you have to respond the way that they have and in the timing that they have. Yeah. You can respond in the way that feels right for you. Yeah. And, and honors your own boundaries within your life and your business. [00:56:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-Hmm. I, I'll, I'll tell you. I've had, you know, be again, between [00:57:00] having a full-time job at Imagen and having photography business on the side. [00:57:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I have had my wife and my kids actually bring it up that I'm constantly, you know, replying to texts or Facebook messages or Instagram dms or whatever it might be, to the point where I made a change and nights and weekends, unless it's vital to whatever's happening.I'm not, I'm not responding, you know, I'll take a quick peek and if I need to respond, I'll respond. [00:57:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Otherwise, I mark it as unread and get back to it the next business day during business hours. [00:57:32] Linsday Coulter: Yeah. [00:57:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: because it, you have to separate and you have to make the time for your family and for whatever else you have in your, in your life, those are the priorities, right? So, yeah. Yeah. If you treat everyone like they're, [00:57:42] Timothy Muza: they're emergencies and family, then you know you're not gonna have time for yourself. [00:57:46] Timothy Muza: I'll actually tell people like, Hey, thank you for this. I'm marking this as unread. I'll get back to you tomorrow. Like, and that's such a healthy way to like, Mm-Hmm. Tell yourself and tell them that this is a healthy boundary that we should both respect. Yeah. [00:57:57] Linsday Coulter: Scott, what are your thoughts? [00:57:58] Final Thoughts and Farewell --- [00:57:58] Linsday Coulter: Do you have any last [00:58:00] thoughts, any last things that you wanna share? Actually, can you please tell, tell everybody that might be listening to some of the Shoot Your Shot side of things? [00:58:06] Linsday Coulter: Yes. How they can find you. Anything that you wanna point out about your podcast where they can reach you. All these things. Plug plugs. [00:58:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for, for all the Shoot Your Shot listeners and viewers, you can find me at anywhere, anywhere on so on online at Scott Wyden, that's W-Y-D-E-N. and of course at Imagen I run the Imagen Community on Facebook and you can listen to the Workflows Photography podcast. [00:58:30] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Just go to workflowspodcast.com and you'll be able to get it. Im very happy when I got that domain. [00:58:35] Linsday Coulter: Very lucky. [00:58:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and I, I do wanna do one thing real quick and I'm sorry, Tim, 'cause you said you do have to go to the bathroom, but, I know we are now a, a couple, is it like two or three episodes in for him to Shoot Your Shot? [00:58:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Something like that whenever this airs. but, I want to formally cheers to your engagement because, hey man, thank you. Let's do it. [00:58:55] Linsday Coulter: We need a cheers. Cheers too. And I wish that, I wish I [00:59:00] could have gotten your advice on shooting a proposal. It was my only, my like second or third proposal I had shot. but yes, I loved the, I loved the, the water bottle and Red Bull. [00:59:09] Linsday Coulter: Cheers there. Cheers. Thanks. Cheers to your, your engagement, Tim. It's a very big deal I've been trying to play in his wedding without his consent successfully. You've been doing a great job last night. Yeah. Happens [00:59:18] Timothy Muza: text from you, like, what do you think about Iceland? I'm like, well, I'm not against it. [00:59:21] Linsday Coulter: Yeah, yeah. [00:59:22] Linsday Coulter: I'm workshopping some ideas. It's the, it's the fire sign in me. I can't, I can't let people just enjoy things. I have to be like, oh, what's the next thing we're doing? What's the next phase of this? [00:59:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, that, you know, that's one of the things that, that I, that I love about you, that you've got an opinion. [00:59:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's always a good one and you have no shame in sharing it. The history books will dictate if, listen. [00:59:44] Linsday Coulter: I think the second part, it's always a good one. I mean, we don't know that for sure, but at least, it's people intentions. People are still listening to the podcast where I give said advice and no one has sent me any hate mail yet, so. [00:59:58] Linsday Coulter: Yep. [00:59:58] Timothy Muza: No, no mail bombs yet. [00:59:59] Linsday Coulter: I [01:00:00] do give a lot of opinions and I always give it alongside a healthy dose of you do you boo [01:00:08] Timothy Muza: like going to God? Absolutely. Scott, thank you so much. This has been a cross episode. I like enjoy like Flintstones Jetsons. This has been great. [01:00:16] Linsday Coulter: One day we'll have you physically in our tiny little podcast studio. [01:00:19] Linsday Coulter: But for now, Scott on the Telly will have to do, for people that want to find us, they can find us on Instagram at the Shoot Your Shot podcast. That's where we get your dms, your questions, and we answer them live on this podcast. And although today's was anonymous, sometimes instead of Scott's beautiful face here, you'll actually see a video of one of our listeners if they are, sharing something maybe a little less personal or it's personal, but they're like, yolo, might as well share right out here. [01:00:48] Linsday Coulter: Yeah, we love that. it's like a photography or a, a radio call and show. So you can literally just send us a voice note, send us a dm, whatever that might be. we would truly love to hear from [01:01:00] you. we love the Imagen community so much, and all the photographers that are associated that we've met have been a true joy. [01:01:06] Linsday Coulter: So I felt like this crossover episode just made so much sense because yeah, we all love each other. It's a big old love fest over here. [01:01:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh yeah. It's, and, you know, for, for everybody who's listening on both sides, if, if you enjoy this, crossover and you wanna hear us and see us do more crossovers, you know, send, send, Shoot Your Shot a dm, requesting more. [01:01:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yes. go to the Imagen, go to the Imagen community and say, show me more. send, Imagen a DM on Instagram, whatever it might be. We want to know if you want to hear more so that we can keep doing more of these, these crossovers. so yeah, [01:01:38] Linsday Coulter: 100% we love it. Yeah, the Facebook, community that you run, Scott, is a huge, resource, so hopefully people will join that as well. [01:01:45] Linsday Coulter: thank you so much. Thank you. This has been a joy and a half. It's so nice to see your face and to chat with you. You too. and thank you for your wonderful, perspectives. We are so excited for everyone to hear from you. [01:01:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Thanks. I appreciate it. [01:02:00] [01:02:00] Linsday Coulter: Okay. Two to lose, we usually do an air high five, so like you have to high five up. [01:02:03] Linsday Coulter: Okay. Over here, Lindsay. Oh, okay. Get in here. That's good. We'll take it. I love it. Okay, Ciao, have an awesome, rest of your day.