It’s Been Reel: Social Media Strategies for Photographers with Angela Shae

Scott Wyden Kivowitz: After over a decade spent working as a wedding photographer and earning features in brides and style me pretty and Junebug weddings and so [00:01:00] many other fantastic publications. Angela chose to walk away from photography. Being a young mom with two boys while building a business, burnt out, exhausted, and running on a cocktail of adrenaline stress and anxiety left her looking for a calmer lifestyle. If only Imagen was around during that point in her career. After a year's sabbatical, Angela organically started helping other photographers and creatives with their social media. With a deep understanding of the industry, Angela recognized the huge need for easy content creation and Instagram marketing out of her need. She started our new company Social Templates Co. Community of creatives where members have access to high quality, done for you, social media resources, saving you time, and taking the stress out of content creation. Without further ado, here's my conversation with my new friend [00:02:00] Angela. Shea. Hey Angela, how's it going? Angela Shae: Good. Thank you so much for having me. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I love, I love how I start out with, and this happens every time. I'm always chatting with the person I'm speaking with, whoever it might be, and I'm like, Hey, and then it's like, like we haven't been talking for the past 10 minutes. Angela Shae: Yeah, it's like a reset. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah. It's always, it's always funny when that happens. The Importance of Video Content in Social Media Strategy --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so I wanna get right into, I, I've already, I, I already recorded the intro to, to who you are and everybody who's listening now knows who you are. so without repeating myself, I wanna get right into the core of what we're gonna discuss today, which is social media and basically, and in particular. Video has risen rose, risen, risen over the years. and it is like the prime source of media that people are consuming, these days. and, and has [00:03:00] been for quite some time at this point. how important at, in 2024, which we are in and beyond, how important do you think it is for photographers to. Incorporate Instagram reels and behind the scenes videos, and things like that into their social media strategies on an ongoing basis. The Power of Instagram Reels in Building Emotional Connections --- Angela Shae: Yeah. So I think, you know, we're coming into this with a mutual understanding that photographers want to grow and connect with new clients using social media. So like, if that's the ultimate goal, then absolutely a hundred percent they should be utilizing. Video content and showing up in the video space. So I think the thing that we're seeing a lot is photographers complaining about the algorithm they love, it's like their favorite topic. They wanna talk about how much they hate the algorithm or the algorithm hates them. but they're having like a really hard time adjusting to like, this is the shift. This is where people are spending most of their time right now. This is how as humanity, like that's how we're [00:04:00] consuming all of our content. And in order for the photo. Content to show up within a video space reels is kind of like the gateway into that, right? So creating reels and showing your photography work in a video format, super important. And also for like brand awareness. I feel like another thing that photographers kind of need to understand is that people like to make emotional purchases. Like we like to make and put our money. Into things that make us feel good, right? We wanna spend money and feel good about how we're spending it. And so when you know, you're, you're booking a photographer, you really want to put your money into like a small business that, you know, wears their heart on their sleeve and they're, you know, showing up for their clients and all these different ways, and they're taking you behind the scenes to show you what that looks like. So one example I like to share is imagine if. I'm gonna speak to like wedding photographers here, but this can be applicable across like many different, photography niches. But let's say you're a bride that [00:05:00] has been engaged and is following a few different photographers. Three of them she likes equally the same. Really great, you know, photography work and. Two of them, they just have a beautifully CRE curated portfolio. They're showing up, you know, with their photos. But then the third photographer alongside showing their work, they're also showing themselves behind the scenes, how they're shooting, maybe what they're putting into their client packages, what the client experience looks like, and then them Editing at night with maybe their dog. By their desk, you know, or you know, what it looks like to edit with kids and like show showing the behind the scenes. So when the bride or the couple has these three photographers that they love, but they already have an emotional connection to one of the brands where they're like emotionally invested in this photographer's life. the chances of them booking that photographer are so much higher than somebody that has equally great work, but they're not able to connect on that emotional level. So I feel like with reels and video form, that's where you're able to [00:06:00] like bridge that gap where you're able to, you know, show up in this authentic way. And then people are emotionally invested and want to give you your money, their money. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, definitely. Behind the Scenes: Th e Value of Authenticity in Content Creation --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: this is, this is actually something that I've been starting to do, more recently, which is, so I have a 9-year-old who, when I have, whenever I photograph somebody with children that are similar age, I bring her with me. she's a great assistant to get the kids to look and smile and stuff, and I have to do less, you know? yeah. And so, now it's, give her, give her the phone and let her record me behind the scenes and record, you know, and, and she's there anyway. Might as well put her to put her to work and then, you know, I can, you know, buy her ice cream on the way home or something. So. Angela Shae: I mean, that's amazing. You're getting that behind the scenes content and she is like entertaining your clients. That's perfect. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I also, [00:07:00] recently, put out, and I, I, I'll try a link to this in the, show notes. I also recently put together a rig, that attaches to my camera for behind the scenes footage from my perspective as well, which is not, you know, for the end client, it's not as exciting as seeing the photographer do things, but. Also gives you the point of view of what the photographer is seeing. so there's also, I think that, and the fact Angela Shae: shoe attachment? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so, I use an L bracket on my cameras. So what I do is, depending on the, on the job I'm doing, if it's one where I need music, so for example, if I do have kids in the photo, I usually find out what kind of music the kids like, and I'll play that and I'll have that on my hot shoe. or on a table depending, or if I need a wireless trigger, I can't use my hot shoe for mounting anything else on it. So what I wound up doing is I built a rig for a GoPro that attaches beautifully, in the perfect spot on my L [00:08:00] bracket. And when I set it to Horizon Lock, even if I go vertical, it still stays horizontal, which for social, obviously you don't. Angela Shae: Necessarily want that, but in my case, for like a YouTube behind the scenes, it's perfect. love that. I love that you incorporated that. That's amazing. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And the, the coolest part about it is where I mount it on the side, you see the lens, like, just a little bit, just enough to know, oh, this really is what the photographer is seeing, you know? So, it's, it's fun, Angela Shae: Amazing. I always say too, bring, bring your like 12-year-old cousin, 15-year-old nephew, or you know, the, the kids these days, they're so good with iPhones and like knowing how to do behind the scenes really well and then you can just, you know, pay them. Not, you know, $300 and they can still help out and be like super happy, especially if they're like dabbling in video Editing or photography and they want that [00:09:00] experience. So Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep, yep. For Angela Shae: I think the younger generation definitely can help here. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Overcoming the Fear of Being on Camera: Tips for Photographers --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what, what, what advice would you give for photographers that are afraid of putting themselves out there in that way? They're afraid of being on camera. You know, they're typically photographers are used to be behind the camera, to those afraid or nervous to be in front of the camera to show the behind the scenes for whatever reason it might be. What advice would you give to overcome that fear? Angela Shae: Well, first of all, don't over complicate it. And don't overthink it. And I know it's easier said than done, but I feel like start out doing the bare minimum. So if you're not comfortable being on camera, like you said, you can record whatever you're seeing. If or if it's a wedding and you know, you've got details and portraits that you can capture, start with that. So you can start sharing the behind the scenes of the process of your shoots. It also helps people see that you're active, you're booking weddings, you're shooting, [00:10:00] and then also, slowly, I, I think this is great, is to have somebody else start shooting you. Shooting your clients. So get somebody else to capture a little bit of you in your zone. You working. I feel like a lot of times photographers think that they have to like face the camera dance on camera, you know, talk to the camera, and that is kind of like terrifying to jump right in into. So if you start with just somebody getting some behind the scenes moments of you. Doing what you love, pouring your heart into your craft. That's an easy segue. And then as you're comfortable, maybe there's a few videos you can get selfie style of you on location, and it kind of, the more you do it, the more comfortable you get with it. So, I mean, my advice is just, just do it, you know? But don't put all this pressure on yourself of like, oh, I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna do this. Voiceover reel. it just gets really overwhelming, I think, mentally. So start by not being on camera and getting that behind the scenes footage and then [00:11:00] incorporate yourself into, and the other thing to note with like behind the scenes footage, if you are, you know, working an event, a wedding, or some other, you know, event where there's other vendors involved. Other vendors don't think about capturing content, I think as much as photographers do, because photographers know how, how crucial it is for advertising. So if you're working with florists, planners, anybody else, makeup artist that's contributing, and at the end of the day you have the behind the scenes footage. Let's say you ask your second shooter, like, Hey, this is, you're, you know, you're shooting groom, getting ready, you're doing all these other shots, and you're also responsible for capturing behind the scenes like this is on your shot list. You know, this is how I want you to shoot it. At the end of the day, if you're able to give that content to your vendors to use for free, like just, you know, as a networking opportunity, that like doesn't go unnoticed like in the industry. Everybody wants content, and if you can be that person. To provide that and be like super easy about it. Like even at the end of the night, you know, just airdropping it and not [00:12:00] making it this complicated thing of like, well, I've got it, you know, you have to wait a few weeks until I edit my photos. And, but like just giving them content and be like, go post it. Go create content that is just gonna be really, really like brownie points for you. So I think I kind of deviated from the original question, but I Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it's all good. Angela Shae: I think that's, important to share. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Definitely, definitely. I, I'm all about, doing what I can to, surprise and delight, you know? I. Undersell over deliver. Whether it's, whether it's the client you're doing that for, or whether it is, you know, the venue that is related to the job at, at the, at the time, you know, doing what you can to surprise somebody,with, with anything that can benefit them without asking for something in return is gonna pay back dividends, in my opinion. So I. Angela Shae: And I think one thing with maybe even like younger photographers that are just, or not younger, but newer photographers that are starting out, a lot of times there's like this tendency to be like. Hey, [00:13:00] let me take you to coffee, you know, to a planner or somebody they wanna work with. and it almost like devalues their time, right? The, the planner's like, wait, you think my time is worth a cup of coffee, like $7 is that, you know, and while it's like a nice gesture, I think thinking of it in a way of like, how can I go above and beyond and serve them in a way, and provide something really valuable for their business? And, you know, going above, above and beyond. And it's, that will create a way better. Impression and lasting, effect of you doing something for them and providing them content and maybe even creating a couple reels for them to be like, Hey, like, I know you probably don't have time. Here's a couple reels from this weekend. Go ahead and you share them. You know? so I think that goes, goes a long way. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Yeah, definitely. The Art of Creating Engaging Instagram Reels --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: okay, so we know we need to create reels. they can be quite time consuming. they can be. Really, to be perfectly blunt, very annoying to [00:14:00] have to go through the process of doing. and so how can photographers create reels without sacrificing quality, without sacrificing time? What to make it easy on them? What, what advice do you have there? Angela Shae: So a few things I think important is to have a very streamlined system, like with anything, right? Your Editing workflow, your client communications. Super important to have a system. Once you have your system dialed in, I feel like the process is just so Smooth, so obviously, like I create reels every single week, so I've tested and tried like a bunch of different processes and just going to share like stuff that's worked for me. first of all, super important is to have your content, your behind the scenes organized on your phone. So for a photographer, if you're coming home and you're backing up photos, this is like perfect time as you're backing up your. Cards on your computers and hard drives. Let's look through your camera roll and delete anything that's like not usable. So [00:15:00] the overwhelm of like, oh, I got, you know, 27 videos from today's shoot can later prevent you from actually creating reels. So I always say, take a moment, delete anything that's not usable, and then take that content that you already shot on your phone. You're behind the scenes, the iPhone footage, and put it in a separate folder with the client's names. So you have to separate it from. You know, cat photos from your children, from all your personal content on your phone. You separate that. And so then when you go to actually sit down and create a reel, first of all, you already got rid of anything that's not usable, so you're not having to like rewatch the videos. and then everything's already in a separate folder. Also, you know, the way that you get your photos onto your phone once they're edited. There's different ways of doing this, you know, I think you've mentioned before, Scott, that you've done, you recommend Google Photos, right? Is that what Apple photos? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Apple photos. Yep. Angela Shae: Apple photos. and then there's, you know, obviously Mobile Lightroom Mobile. I prefer to just airdrop the images directly onto my phone. [00:16:00] It's super easy and seamless. So whatever way you choose to. Get your photos onto your camera roll. You want those in a separate folder as well. So separate all of your client work that you're going to use for reels or for like vendor collaborations, things like that. It has to be in a separate folder. So this is like, I think, super important because overwhelm as you're going to create a reel, you're like scrolling. It's somewhere here. It's in the camera roll. I know I had like this really great clip. so just have that all in a separate folder. So when you go into Instagram to create a reel, you're able to open just that folder. There's no other images for you to search through. you might, you know, be able to narrow down to your favorites that way, but that's just like streamlining it that way. Also, well, I guess with that there's templates available, like our templates. There's templates that, you can find on Instagram that are not, you know, created specifically for photographers. or if you're going to build a reel completely from scratch, like all of that is just easy to drop in your content that [00:17:00] way.beat matching is really, really annoying and has to be manually done for those. So if you do have a template that is perfectly beat, matched, that's always gonna save you like a ton of time. The other thing to note is you don't have to create a. Like a really elaborate reel every single time. Like a really great behind the scenes with like 20 photos from the event is great, but it doesn't have to be that every single time. Sometimes you can take a beautiful moment. Let's say you shot the bride walking and her DRE dress was like blowing the breeze and there's beautiful golden light and you happen to shoot it in slow motion and it's just this beautiful five second. Video that alone can be a reel like pair it with some trending music, add a really great hook, for example, you know, tips on how to get the best, portraits during sunset or something, something that brings value to your clients, to your potential future brides, to your, you know, again, I use wedding clients a lot as an example, but this works across [00:18:00] like any niche. So as long as you've got like a video that's five to seven seconds long that you can loop and. Add a really great hook, more information in the caption, make it saveable con, saveable and charitable content is like gold, right? So, that alone is gonna be a really great reel without having to overthink and beat match things as long as you know it's bringing value. And it's literally like a beautiful moment that you captured at your event and you don't have to. You don't have to really overthink it. Sometimes those are the ones that go viral, right? They're like just a beautiful moment that has value in the caption, and that sometimes is enough. And when you say to put the hook, like seven tips for sunrise or sunset photos, whichever, are you saying to put it as text or are you saying it as to audibly say it? Or both? What are you? Usually easiest is to just do text. but you could do it voiceover. I think a lot of people get [00:19:00] intimidated by doing voiceovers, so if you're not consistently doing voiceovers, it does feel intimidating. So I think just text is great. And for right now, beginning of 2024, this is what is working really well on Instagram. This always changes, right? Like three years ago during the pandemic we were dancing, right? Nobody's pointing and dancing anymore. Like that did not stick around, thank God. but like what's working right now is using like really great strong visuals with a strong hook of some sort, or a call to action or something valuable where you're directing people to the caption. So what Instagram really cares about is the playtime, right? How many times. Somebody watches your reel from beginning to end and if you have very valuable information in your caption, you know, people are taking the time to read that.it's really good for engagement and reach, and especially if it's like tips. Somebody can save bookmark. Let's say you're sharing like. Your favorite venues or, you know, something that a client can come back to later. So, [00:20:00] that's really great. I know that a lot of people like, complain about like, oh, this is so annoying to see these like reels that get you, like, really interested with the hook. And then they tell you go read the caption, and like, they don't like it. which I don't like that either. Like I'm like, just tell me in the reel Right. But it's, we also kind of have to adapt to what's performing well and what is reaching more people and that. It kind of just shifts with trends, so it's not our favorite thing. You know, the trends can sometimes be a bit annoying and it feels like some of it is like little hacks, how to get more views and things like that. But ultimately, like I think everybody's still fighting for more views, right? So you kind of have to play the game in like a little bit. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. so you, you kind of outlined some of the steps that photographers can make today. is there anything else that you would say is, Important in, if you were to outline the, like, the exact steps, is there anything else that you would say is important in the reel creation process that [00:21:00] photographers should start implementing like now? as they, as they go about things that you may not have touched on just before? Angela Shae: Yeah, I mean, I did touch on like, please organize your content. Like I think I like, just wanna scream it from the rooftops, like, if your content is not organized, this is what leads to overwhelmed. So just reiterating that, that's like super important. I think the other, the most like underutilized. Thing that I see photographers do is not inviting collaborators. So there's a feature when you create a reel, is to invite a collaborator to that reel. And I feel like with every reel photographers are making, if there's other people that contributed to that content in any way, they should be inviting them as a collaborator. So if it's their client. Obviously the client doesn't always necessarily want to maybe have their content public or they don't wanna accept, like that's like a case by case situation. But let's just say majority of clients, want they're okay with their content being on social media. Invite them as a collaborator, like automatically. 'cause [00:22:00] when you create a reel with the client's content and the client shares it through the story, it just lasts for 24 hours. So when you are inviting them to a collaborator. Basically it gets pushed out to two audiences at the same time, and you are reaching all of a sudden all of their friends and family and it lives in their feed. Like it doesn't disappear after 24 hours. So if somebody's like, oh, you know, we saw our friends do family photos three months ago. I wonder who did that? They can go and find that easily. It's not something that goes away if you're working with a wedding planner, Floris, you know. You can invite multiple collaborators. So especially like, you know, wedding content creators, like they just should be inviting everybody. Anybody that Scott Wyden Kivowitz: florist, the venue, the, Angela Shae: makeup artist, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: everybody. Yeah. Angela Shae: And then all of a sudden your reel is getting pushed out to all of these different people. And I think there's also what I call like the wedding buzz high, like that happens within like 24 hours where all the friends and family are trying to stalk the photographer or like anybody that was at the [00:23:00] wedding to see like what it looked like, especially the people that weren't invited. Right. So everybody wants to know, and if you're not capitalizing on that, like this is how to go. Like mini viral in the best way possible because you know, if your content just goes viral for no reason and you're attracting all these people that aren't really, you know, necessarily going to become paying clients in the future, it's kind of useless. But if you're creating content that is reaching your clients', friends and families and acquaintances, and you're living off of that, like that high, that happens right after, that's like the best way to get like future bookings and connect with the wedding party. And. Other people that you know, are potentially thinking about doing photos. And so I think that's like the most underutilized feature that's available. And I'm like, why is, why are not more people doing this? And I think they forget in the moment. And there's not a re like a way to edit to go back and like add a collaborate once you've posted it. So it's like one of those things that you have to like do in the moment and like remind yourself to do it. so yeah, [00:24:00] I think that's, I think that's big. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You know, one of the things that bothers me about TikTok is that you can't edit your description or your caption that you put. Like once you post it, that's it. And I know completely off track, but you just reminded me of that, of how much that bothers me. on a, you know, we're talking about Instagram here, but TikTok, come on, let us edit. Angela Shae: If we make a mistake, we have a typo. You know, like, come on, let us edit. though. Typos, get those people like commenting on your reel. Conclusion: The Power of Engagement and Collaboration in Social Media --- Angela Shae: They're like, you miss type, and you're like, thanks for the engagement. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, yeah. And that's why like, that's why you see so many like Binks in Binks, in Ohios, like. Like, you know, they're, they're doing intentional, incorrect things. so yeah, I mean, I know that was, that's also for the algorithm to not hurt them either, but it just, it's so funny. so you've, you've now touched on two engagement things here. one's reach with the collaborators. one was engagement with like, you [00:25:00] know, sort of teasing what it's about, getting people to. To read the, the, the description that comes with it to get them to keep playing, which helps, helps that that reel with the reach with in turn will help with engagement this circle of life. So engagement is key on social media.are there any other engagement tips that you could share for photographers to increase their reach, their engagement? Especially when using int Instagram reels, whether it's, whether it's templatized, whether it's just behind the scenes content, anything. Angela Shae: I feel like I briefly touched on this, but saveable and shareable content is what's gonna be really good. So stuff that people are gonna bookmark. I, yeah, I think I briefly talked about this, and then stuff that they would want to send to, to their friends and family or somebody else that. Is relatable. This one I think is a little bit harder because when we try to create like relatable, shareable content, it gets into like. The murky gray water of [00:26:00] like viral stuff that then you have to like, either keep catering to that and creating more of that, or you get like the wrong type of traffic to your page. So it's, it's a little bit tricky here, but I do know some photographers that do this very, very well and they create like a lot of, especially like education, photographers that are doing education for other photographers. They create a lot of like, stuff that's shareable and relatable within the industry. So that does really well for engagement and reach. But if your goal is to attract new clients, connect with new, new clients, I think saveable stuff is good. Anything that will help them, you know, with outfit ideas, locations, how to plan their session better. And then I know like we were maybe gonna talk about this later, but I'm just gonna dive right in. ManyChat like. Oh my gosh, like ManyChat is so good for engagement and again, I think it's one of those things that not enough photographers know how to utilize well. or they see, you know, a lot of very, like coach [00:27:00] specific, I don't know. I feel like a lot of, financial advisors and things like reel estate gurus, they use MiniChat a lot. And so then I haven't seen it incorporated into the wedding industry as well. But I, I wanna talk about this for a second. I think ManyChat is just Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Let's, let's do something fun. You and I right now, because I was about to ask you about many chat. And I am a big fan of ManyChat and there's other companies that also do what ManyChat does, but I feel like ManyChat is the leader in that space. so we're gonna reference it as ManyChat in this, in this scenario. Let's plan a wedding automation. Right now, you and I. For many chat for wedding photographers. And I actually wanna loop it back to, it's funny, you and I did not talk about doing this when we were talking about the episode, so I'm just being spontaneous here. Which is, which is, which is always fun. let's loop it back around to [00:28:00] what you talked about earlier, which is, a, a guide, right? A reel that is, let's say,A bridesmaids,color scheme ideas. Right. Angela Shae: Mm-Hmm. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So you've got this reel. You used a, a a a a template from, from yours, from your collection to Angela Shae: all the ideas of bridal outfits, bridesmaid Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You gave it this good hook in the beginning. Right now, what would you do to hook ManyChat into that? Angela Shae: so just a preference. MiniChat is like a keyword trigger that will send an automation to. dms, well, mostly dms. It will send you an automation, whoever comments, it will send them a link or some sort of information. So we would create a trigger word that would be, let's say our, you know, your suggestion for color palettes, for bridesmaid dresses, comment bridesmaids, and then we'll send you a link. And so then you have a free [00:29:00] Pinterest board. That is potentially like all stuff you've shot also that like, you know, ties into your branding, that you create that you can send now to your potential brides or anybody looking for links to bridesmaid dresses. So it could be a Pinterest board with inspiration, it could be links to where to buy them. It could be something, a blog post that lives on your website where you're directing people to your website and providing other resources, so that you. You send it to them as a dm and then also you can, have multiple comments that will get spit out to people, just so that it feels more natural communication wise. little less automated. yeah. And then once you, that link goes to them, that person is now in your dms, which ranks your relationship on Instagram higher above everybody else. So. When you have conversations with people inside your dms, this is the people that you'll start seeing at the front of your timeline. Like when you see stories. This is also the [00:30:00] people that like their content starts showing up to you more often. And this is also a way for the photographer to start communication within the dms of, you know, continuing the conversation. So they got the link and then you can follow up with saying, Hey, like, are you getting married? Do you need other things? You know, we have other resources. Or just being friendly without being salesy. And, you know, start starting a conversation there. So it's just so good for you to kind of start getting those warm leads, show your personality, provide resources at no cost to them. Like, Hey, we've curated the top trends for bridesmaid dresses for this year, and here's where you can buy them. And, you know, like doing something for them that is going to already like, make a connection to your brand. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And for the photographers that are, still. Have preference for, let me get the conversation off of Instagram, right? And either on the phone or by email [00:31:00] or, let me set up a Google Meet or a Zoom. There are other additional opportunities where you can, you can make this whole flow. think of a, you know, a whole bunch of post-it notes in a certain order, you know, that you put on the wall and you've mapped it all out of what you want to happen. This is literally what you can do in ManyChat, just virtually. And you could say that after you send them this Pinterest link, you wait 24 hours, you wait eight hours, whatever you want it to be, and you send another message that says, Hey, would you like, I love to hop on a call with you. Here's my Calendly, here's my, my Z cow. Here is whatever it is that you use for, for booking with your clients. and, you know, let's, let's get on a call. And that again, that is fully automated or. You could say, you know, if you send, gimme your phone number, I'll give you a call. You know, and then they'll give you a phone number and you can actually manually call them. or you could say, you know, what, if you, I, I love to chat further, what's your email address? You know, something clever like that. Or if you gimme your email address, I can give you, you [00:32:00] know, a full PDF guide that I've put together, as well. And that way you now have that email, which is in some cases more valuable depending on who the photographer is. Could be more valuable than just an Instagram dm. Right? So, to me, like that's the, the beauty of ManyChat is that not only are you automating just the first part of the conversation, but you can get granular and really dig it in deep into your existing ecosystem, of how you manage your, your leads and your, your booked clients and, and, and beyond. I just. Angela Shae: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think the, what's great is that each photographer can kind of tailor it to like their preference of how they like to do their, you know, client communications, whether, you know, it's a little more pushy and like, you know, giving them all these resources and kind of like. Create, like creating that relationship really fast before anybody else gets a [00:33:00] chance to do that. Or, you know, some people like to hang back and do less, but it's like you just kind of figure out what works for yourself depending on your, like, personality and, your workflow with clients. So I think that's, yeah, that's really great. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. I have one final question as we wrap this up, and that is you listen to a lot of trending music, as you design and build your, your templates at this moment. It is. We are recording this on February 21st, 2024. This episode will be going out in March. what is your current. Favorite song. And that, by the way, does not necessarily mean it is a favorite. Like, I love it. It could be a favorite because I've listened to it a bazillion times at this point. You know? What is your current favorite song? from all of the music that is, that is trending right now, Angela Shae: Oh man. Oh man, this is so hard 'cause [00:34:00] like I literally listen to so much music.I'm not gonna give you the answer that you want. I'm not gonna give you the answer that you want. 'cause I think like every single week there's new trending music that we're, you know, working with and it's hard for me to kind of. I guess dial into like my favorite, I, I like really like sad, depressing music. So like none of that is even on Instagram. But I think what works really well for Instagram reels is like something that, starts out kind of like mellow and then like the beat drops and there's like really clear cut, like beat drops and it doesn't work for all styles of photography. but it's really fun to create with that. And it's like stuff that I sometimes like to pull into, like my marketing for social templates. It's just anything that has like a really solid beat. And a lot of times it's even like a remix, so it's like, could be done by an artist and then like it's remixed by like four different people and there's like four different versions that are trending. But, I think that's, I I, I don't have like a [00:35:00] specific one to give you. I'm so sorry. But I like anything with like an edgy beat. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Angela Shae: Because I think it elevates the photos, like as Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is your favorite? I, I'm gonna get an answer about music. I'm determined. What is your favorite, song from a reel that you've designed in your entire box? Angela Shae: It's JVKE. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Jake, I love, I was gonna bring Jake up. I love Jake. Angela Shae: is that how you say it? 'cause I'm like, is it Vik Jake? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It is Jake. Yeah. Yeah, it's Jake. He, yeah. He just does a play on the On the A. Angela Shae: I like all of his stuff.'cause I feel like it does really well on social media with the reels. It has really good beats and I feel like his music really resonates, like with my boys, with their, nine and 12. And so it kind of, I don't know, it gave me like a fresh perspective 'cause I, I wasn't, you know, following all the trending new stuff. And then I started creating [00:36:00] reels and then I have young kids. And Jake, I feel like he's touching the younger generation in a really interesting way. And his music is. Always trending. Like it's really, really good for, for reels. So Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Did you, watch his videos of when his first single, his big hit, first came out? and he did a, a bunch of videos, one Angela Shae: the duets, no. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it was, it was him showing his, music teachers Angela Shae: Mm, yes. Yeah, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I was like, growing up as a, as a music student, I was just like, my music teacher would be bawling her eyes out if I did that, but she does not want to hear me sing, Angela Shae: Yeah, so both of my boys play the piano and we like watched it all together. And then I was just so impressed with his marketing too, because when he did that whole thing where he duet it, like he had people duet his songs from all over the world and that just like really gave him such a great platform for his music and. I just thought it was [00:37:00] very genius for him to, the way that he's marketed his music and, it's like wave after wave. We keep seeing his songs trending on Instagram over and over and over, and then they come back too, like they stop trending for a little bit and then the same song will come back a few months later. So. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: he just did a new one. I just watched the video today where he put on an Apple Vision Pro. He's sitting in a mall and he, somebody comes up to him like he had a sign that says, write a, write a song with me. Somebody comes up to him, picks which loop, that he wrote to, to include. and what the song was about and like a whole bunch of pieces. And he's Editing it using the Apple Vision Pro in the video. And then it plays like the first 10 seconds of the song and then it says to, Preed to your Apple Music Lincoln Bio. It's like, yeah, he is good. He's good. I, I, I really enjoy his music, so that's a good answer. I'm so glad you [00:38:00] chose him. so, all right, thank you Angela for, for sitting down with me chatting about social media, Instagram. this is a topic that. Is a very difficult one for so many photographers on so many different levels too. Not just like the annoyance of social media. Some are just the shyness and fear. There's so many different reasons people, hesitate and don't, push too hard, or enough on Instagram. And I feel like you gave a lot of really good actionable advice. So, I really appreciate the time. Angela Shae: Thank you so much for having me. I, it's an honor to be able to, you know, hang out with you here today and chat about this and, yeah, share, just, I know from my space, from where I've. Where I've been kind of creating at of for a while, so thank you for having me. ​ [00:39:00]