How to Blow Your Photography Clients Minds with Nicole Ashley

Nicole Ashley: [00:00:00] the most insane one that I've ever done is the one I just flew back from. Thank you. The one that we rescheduled this podcast because so, it literally was a dream come true. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:01:00] Nicole. Ashley is a Canon Canada ambassador and is not only a passionate photographer who sees the world through her lens, but is also an active educator in the photo community. Leveraging her bachelor's of education degree to mentor other photographers beyond the camera, Nicole's personal life is equally captivating, married to her best friend, Jon an incredible artist and father and mother to a beautiful daughter. Nicole has an infectious energy that many of our clients say makes them feel like they've known her forever. Grab your coffee or tea. This is a great episode. Normally, normally I start out with like, like, Hey Nicole, what's going on? But I feel like I'm just gonna start out with us laughing 'cause it's so funny. I like to not cut things out unless it's something like I have to so, you know, we're just going with it. We're just going Nicole Ashley: I think [00:02:00] people appreciate that. People want to see all of the BTS. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, I'm glad we're doing this. We were just talking before we started recording that, you know, it's a crazy time going on in the world right now. And, you know, we've got to just go on with stuff and keep doing our thing and, laugh and, you know, do, Just be ourselves and keep our minds occupied on positivity. So, that's what we're here to do today. We're here to talk about positive things in our photography businesses. So, hi Nicole. Nicole Ashley: Hi. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~I'm gonna get right into it and just ask you the first question I ask every guest. And that is that, one, What is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing? Anything that you do for the photographic process behind the camera that has saved you time. Nicole Ashley: One thing that I do with [00:03:00] the entire photo process that saves me time. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Could be, yeah, could be with the camera could be with lighting, could be something with lenses, could be with an assistant, whatever it is, something behind you're behind the camera. You haven't even gotten to actually taking a picture yet. What's one thing you do to save yourself time? Nicole Ashley: Oh, and I haven't even taken a picture yet. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I mean, maybe you took a picture, but you know, you're still Nicole Ashley: was gonna say, I was like, obviously, Imagen. Like, I would not be able to do life without it now. I think my biggest fear is that, like, I've had a taste, and for some reason you're gonna take it away. And I'll be like, no, what will I do? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And we will have more than enough time to talk about Imagen stuff to you but for now let's talk about other stuff. Nicole Ashley: Yeah, so. For me, I, I like to go into sessions feeling really calm, really clear of what we're shooting, that what I shoot is very diverse, that even from what I [00:04:00] show, because I do actually shoot a lot of commercial work, I actually do a lot of, like, styling and production stuff behind the scenes, But so often I'm signing NDAs. I can't share what I'm doing. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right, Nicole Ashley: ~um,~ something that saves me time is writing out to do lists, going over mood boards, everything like that. And prepping everything I do before I shoot the night before. Like, right down to laying out my outfit. I'm Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I mean I can see, for sure, I mean like when you're doing these like. commercial commercial jobs, right? Where they're they're highly. the production quality, you know, value is like, like way above the norm, right? The, the stuff that you're do, that you've been doing more regularly over the past few years and whatnot, right? So, mood boards. I I've got to imagine are, are sort of like an essential piece [00:05:00] in that puzzle, right? I'm curious. Are you a digital mood boarder, or a physical mood boarder? Nicole Ashley: So, I used to be a physical mood boarder, but as things have gotten easier with technology over the years, and like, with Canva, and obviously Pinterest, and then even just like, with the way businesses work, like, I used to find when I used to do a majority of my work in where I live, then physical mood boards made sense, but so often I'm working with team members in different locations, so. Being able to send out something digital, like, is just the way to do it. Whether it's showing textures or color schemes, and then, or if I'm like, actually like shopping for something and taking pictures and adding it to that way. But yeah, I think because so much of my work is all over the place, digital is just the way to go. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And, so a secondary [00:06:00] question. Cause, you brought up the NDA thing, which I totally get, right? It makes sense for, let's say, X, Y, Z brands coming out with this product and they want you to go shoot a campaign, right? Which is a very regular part of your life. And, and, and you have to sign this NDA, but you're, you're doing the planning digitally so that your team, wherever they are, can, can help with the process to get everything going. Do NDAs as well? Nicole Ashley: Yeah, everyone, anybody involved has to. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. Cool. Yeah, Nicole Ashley: it takes is someone to have a glass of wine with a friend and be like, you gotta make sure right from like hair and makeup to, who's ever, you know, DP's lighting, anyone has to do it. Yeah, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What is the coolest, unless it's one that you're in the middle of now, but [00:07:00] besides from that, what is one that you're allowed to talk about that's your coolest, most extravagant, most fun, for you personally, campaign that you've done? Nicole Ashley: honestly, the most insane one that I've ever done is the one I just flew back from. Thank you. The one that we rescheduled this podcast because so, it literally was a dream come true. And I got to, it's funny because I was hired for one role and ended up not only doing some behind the scenes photography, but set dialing and modeling. Imagen this like setup. So that it was a unique experience and I really thrive off working. With different artists and seeing different people's role and this one had the biggest team that I had worked with to date. So it was really cool because I feel like I learned so much [00:08:00] and the brand itself is the biggest brand that I've worked with yet. So, when I can talk about that one, but this was a big one. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. I can't wait to hear more about it when Nicole Ashley: Yeah, I know I'm like, I can't wait to share. actually like, because I get asked, I do a lot of mentoring, with photographers and, like, education stuff, as you know, and I always get asked, like, do you have YouTube, do you vlog or whatever. So, knowing this was, like, the biggest one that I've ever worked on, I actually, like, vlogged all of it in preparation to start a vlog. I just haven't. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. Nicole Ashley: I I will properly be able to show it off when I can. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. That's going to be cool to watch then. I'm excited. Nicole Ashley: Yeah. What is one thing that you do for the business that saves you time or money? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~so, we're talking about business a bit. Let's, so let's shift into, my, my business question. [00:09:00] What is one thing you do for business that either saves you time or money? Again, not Imagen, we will get to Imagen, but overall in your business, what's one thing that saves you time or money? Nicole Ashley: Hmm. There's so many things. ~Um. ~Definitely streamlining things like. If I'm sending out repeat emails, like having email templates. That I obviously I customize and personalize beyond there, but having that stuff set up. From there, is really helpful. And then obviously the different programs that I use that I've tested out that, I know streamline my business from there. So, I don't know if you want me to stick with the 1 or like, start listing or. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Well, no, no, that's good. I mean, so, so what, everybody has their, their preferred, you know, tools that they use for, for email automation, CRM, stuff like that. What is, what is it that, that you found that has worked best for you? Nicole Ashley: So, for me, the website that I use, actually, [00:10:00] I'm able to make, like, custom client portals within it. So, from there, I can send out my invoices, they can pay me directly through there. It just keeps everything really organized and that's, through Focal. So, that's my Focal website. Before then, I used to be making, like, random, like, pages documents and just writing notes and it was just. As you know, as work gets busy, that's a little unreliable. I still write a to do list every single day, but, definitely changing over to that website platform, has helped tremendously in keeping me organized. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Yeah. Our friend Taylor was, also mentioned that on when he was on a few episodes back, he was talking about how Focal did that. Nicole Ashley: the best. It really is. Yeah. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. And it's a great crew over there. Nicole Ashley: They, you know what? It's so funny. I know you and I have talked about this before, [00:11:00] But there's a lot of great products out there for photographers now. There's a lot of great systems, but something that is so important to me because I'm referring products a lot of the time is the humans behind it also. So, you know, especially when it comes to like AI or anything that's going to automate, like, obviously there's a lot of good stuff, but whoever has the best support, the best humans, the people, like, that means so much to me. And. Obviously, like, you know that, like, Imagen how I feel about you guys, but Focal too, like, they're the most incredible group of people out there that truly want people to do well, and they put so much time and energy into helping artists, and they're really receptive to feedback, so if you're like, hey, I don't love this, they're like, what can you do to change it? Like, they're so good about it, so I can't say enough good things about them. Bye. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it's, it's funny. So in my previous life, [00:12:00] previous career, whatever you want to call it, I was in the website space for photographers, and, that's when you and I first Nicole Ashley: Yes, that's right. I was like, wow, I knew that. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so what Focal is doing now is exactly with the direction that the company I was working for was planning on going. And, so it's really, really, really nice to see a company doing that. Now they're not in the WordPress side, which is what I was in. They're in like their own platform, which is cool. But so it's really nice to see, you know, that, that happening, right? You're seeing a full solution that also has these like business tools baked into it that, Don't detract from other things, just help! Right. So. I love it, yeah. So, lets talk a little bit about editing. So, again, not Imagen, because we will get to Imagen still. but um What is one thing that you do for editing that has saved you time? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Before, before Imagen came into your life, or even since, but maybe [00:13:00] something else, related. What is one thing that you do for editing that saves you time. Nicole Ashley: ~Um, ~definitely like finessing my like go to preset, obviously saves me a lot of time and then that has You know, plugging that into Imagen has further saved time, but, if you look at my style from when I started, you know, 10 plus years ago to now, it's very similar, but I've definitely locked down, like the signature way I edit, and I get asked about how I edit, all the time, or if people want to hire me for mentoring, they want to know about editing and how I edit skin and stuff like that. ~Um,~ Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And that, is that Lightroom or Photoshop? Nicole Ashley: but it's, it's mostly Lightroom, but it's mostly Lightroom now because I have finesse, the preset. So, and I actually do, I am working on new ones that have even further done that, but I found, I find now that I found the perfect [00:14:00] amount that I want, you know, with my color tones and curves and everything, I'm touching photos way less, which is great. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's great. That's definitely great. Did you, I mean, you probably did. Did you hear the news that we're more working on smooth skin? Imagen? Nicole Ashley: Remember I talked to you about this like a year ago and I was like, is this going to happen? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Nicole Ashley: I did not hear that news. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, so at the last, Nicole Ashley: way. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: the day two, the day two of the Imagination Summit, when you did your Quickfire session, early in that event, like, within like the first ten minutes, Zoe dropped the, dropped the, you know, the news, that, we were working on SmoothSkin. That's what Nicole Ashley: That is very exciting. Yes. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and, yeah, it'll be part of the subject mask, you know, capabilities. I don't know exactly how it's gonna work yet, and once I get my, my hands on it, I'll, I'll know more, but, [00:15:00] it's very Nicole Ashley: That is very exciting because I do think, I'm like, very, very picky about retouching and what takes so long is making sure skin is finessed and that like, that's literally the number one thing. I get hired for to teach if you want to learn how I'm doing this in. So I'm very curious how that's going to play out. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. Nicole Ashley: Yeah, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Nicole Ashley: that's exciting. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. Okay. One more question till we get to a really, really fun thing n that I do with every guest. What is one thing that you do after a session that has increased business? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So what is now one thing you do after a session, right? The job is done. You know, you've done your editing, you've done any final retouching you need to do. You've either, what is one thing you do now after the session, whether it's delivery, whether it's follow up, that has increased business. Something that you do to increase business. Nicole Ashley: So something that I do after a session, I always try in a [00:16:00] perfect world. Within 24 hours, I like to send out a sneak peek. From the session to a client, just to show them how excited I am, to thank them for their time, thank them for hiring me, and I, I picked a photo that I think that they will really love, and I retouched that and send it to them, and just say, like, I couldn't wait, like, I wanted to show this to you, and I gift that photo, because I include so many photos in the package, but that's always a good gifted surprise photo. And clients love that, and then they have something right away they can share on social so, that's definitely been a great thing that clients really love. And then another thing that I do for weddings I post about it quite a bit. I bring a little mini Canon printer and I use the Canon Connect app And so, I'll actually be able to go through RAW files that I've shot that day during dinner, While I'm like stuffing my [00:17:00] face, I'll print out a few film prints so that they have something tangible from the day. And then I'll wait until they're like dancing or doing something where they're distracted and I'll just go and put little film prints in their seat so that they can come back to it. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. Nicole Ashley: And my clients really love that. And I've even had clients, like their wedding was like a year or two ago, like still. Send me a picture of their fridge and the photos are still on it, which is really cool. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That is cool. Is that, that printer is a Canon's own thing, or is that using a Fuji film? Like a Nicole Ashley: no, it's like, it's called the Canon Selfie Printer. So it's really tiny. It's really light. I don't have it on here. I don't. It's in my studio. So it's so great because it's like, it's literally like this big and I can travel with it. And then it's like, it's such an easy thing to do. That's so thoughtful and clients love it.[00:18:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. That's great. Do you, do you, do you just give them the print? Do you put it in some sort of, like, little, not a, like, you know, like one of those little cardboard folders for, Nicole Ashley: no, I just, I, I, I mean, I could start doing that. I'm like, no, I usually, for weddings, I usually print off, like, three different photos. So I'll print off, like, a flat layer or a detail photo and, like, two couple photos, or something, like, special from the day. Like, the last wedding I just shot, the couple, like, loved their dog, but obviously the dog couldn't come to the wedding. Or yes, not obviously, sometimes dogs do. But, my second shooter was with the groom and got a photo of their dog, so I got her to send it to me. So I printed off some couples photos of them and then a photo of their dog from that morning and they really loved that. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. Out of curiosity, how much of your, if you were to put a percentage on it, how much of your, of your [00:19:00] business is weddings versus, I'll just say portraits, like, family, that kind of stuff, versus, This like commercial projects that you also get hired to do. Nicole Ashley: ~Um, ~that's a hard question to ask because before it used to be majority and then it was vote. Now I would say it's like 50, maybe 40 percent. Which is funny because my socials make it seem like it's way more. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I mean, you get a wedding, and you got thousands of photos you Nicole Ashley: I know you have so much content to put on there. So it's still like, a decent amount for sure. I, I really, I do love weddings a lot and weddings, you know, you get this front row seat to people, very intimate life and then usually you carry on with them and you get to see their family grow and you get to be a part of other things. So. I still do quite a few weddings for sure.[00:20:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~how many Bar and Bat mitzvahs have you done in your career? Nicole Ashley: Oh, I haven't shot any... Oh, sorry, Bar Mitzvahs are like Jewish weddings. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Uh, ~no Bar and Bat mitzvahs. Nicole Ashley: Oh, no, I haven't shot any. I've attended. I haven't shot any, but I've shot quite a few Jewish weddings. But no, I haven't shot any... I haven't been asked to shoot any. But I don't literally post, like, events. So I have a lot of people try to hire for even like baby showers or stuff like that, like that kind of stuff I don't shoot. ~Um, ~it's usually just like portraits, couples, weddings, and then the commercial stuff. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So the reason why I asked is so, in a previous episode, I spoke with Braulio Rocha from, he's in Montreal and he's predominantly a bar and bat mitzvah photographer and he does weddings, but his primary business is bar and bat mitzvahs. [00:21:00] And he said something really interesting in that episode, which was, He loves shooting in bar and bat mitzos for just because for one, he loves it more than weddings. Um, but, he says that they're more profitable because although they're a lot of times, I would say, just from growing up in that. Space, Bar Mbat Mitzvahs are often quite over the top like weddings are Nicole Ashley: Mhm. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and Nicole Ashley: I would say most of them are more over the top than weddings Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, Nicole Ashley: in the best Scott Wyden Kivowitz: you have all the kids involved, you gotta do stuff stuff to make it over the top, um so, so he said that it's it's still over the top, so it's still very demanding, right, it's still ve very, ~um ~Stressful event. It's still very long. You're, you're talking way more than four hours because you're talking four hour party, and then like the service before it and [00:22:00] potentially other stuff before that. Depending on your packages. So, he was saying, like there are long days, they're stressful. But afterwards. The stress is, like, gone. Like Afterwards. There's no, there's no You know, mother that's that's that's hounding you. Right. Like the parents know your process. They're a little more relaxed with the Bar Mitzvah than they are with a wedding or a Bar Mitzvah than they are with a wedding. So he said he finds it's more profitable than a wedding because he's doing far less work. Afterwards. It's very interesting. So anybody who's interested in hearing that check out Braulio's episode on on the podcast. It's really Nicole Ashley: I'm definitely going to, cause I'd be, I'd be so curious even. Yeah. Just to see again, I'm really funny that way. Like even if it's something I don't shoot, I'm so. Interested and curious by other people's process and why they shoot what they shoot what they love about it and like again like their process behind it even if it's not something I'm [00:23:00] like going to be shooting myself like yeah and especially knowing how over the top and amazing they are like I'd be so curious to be like oh what it would be like to to do one yeah Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, so Nicole Ashley: but I'd rather attempt. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~uh, ~I've said it to Braulio, and I've said it, actually, I just spoke with Jerry Gionis on a live event, this week, that, well, we're recording this, late October, so, earlier this week, from when we were recording this, I did a live event with Jerry Gionis, and, Braulio submitted his, one of his photos for Jerry to critique, and I said right to Jerry's face, If I was 13 and my parents said, what photographer do you wanna hire to photograph your Bar mitzvah? I would 100% choose Braulio. And I will, I will, I will go on record now and say that when my daughter is 13 and has her bat mitzvah, he will be flying to New Jersey to photograph her, bar Nicole Ashley: You're like, it's happening. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. If, if we are, if we are doing it here, [00:24:00] 'cause my wife actually wants to do it in Israel like she was. She went to Israel for her batmistal, so, if that happens, no, but if it's here, yes. So. Okay, Nicole Ashley: I look forward to it. It's coming. We talked about it. It's coming. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: comin, way too fast. Okay, here's my favorite part, pick a color. Nicole Ashley: A color, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. Nicole Ashley: orange or yellow, whatever that is. Yeah. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah it's orange, it's orange. Okay, I'm gonna shuffle through these, through the deck, and you're gonna tell me when to stop. Nicole Ashley: Okay. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Just tell me when. Nicole Ashley: Stop. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. This is on you. You picked your own question. Nicole Ashley: Okay. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay, you got this, you got this. Which activities make you lose track of time? Nicole Ashley: Oh, social media, like, all it, like, all it takes is for me to, like, if I'm uploading [00:25:00] something or waiting for something on the computer, I'll be like, oh, I'll just check social media real quick. And then I'll be like, oh, I'm like an hour. So Scott Wyden Kivowitz: did I do that? It's now like six hours later and it's the end of the day. Nicole Ashley: And then you start like answering messages or like getting in and then. And then you All of a sudden, you're looking at like a cat video and you're like, oh my gosh, get back to work. So, yeah, social media for sure. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's cool. Yeah. I mean, I... Definitely, yeah, an easy answer, I think Nicole Ashley: for everyone. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, yeah, oh man, okay, this is a very deep question, not in the personal sense, deep in the business sense, Nicole Ashley: Okay. Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: looking down at your business, and you can choose what part of your business that you want to do, whether it's weddings, or whether it's these commercial projects, but, Alright, look down at your business from this 30, 000 foot view down. Can you share an outline breakdown [00:26:00] of your workflow from lead to delivery? Nicole Ashley: Yes. But you want me to? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Nicole Ashley: I thought there was a question and people were like, no, I can't. We're like, okay, so I just have to choose a genre or like an area? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, yeah, because I'm sure your, your workflow from lead to delivery is different for weddings and it is like, if you know, if I want to think of a company, I'm going to say if Yeti. Cups, whatever Yeti is, I mean, what is it? Travel? Outdoor gear? If Yeti hired you for a campaign, what would your workflow look like from lead to delivery? Nicole Ashley: Well, it wasn't Yeti, but Stanley has, which is like the same thing. I mean, just kidding. So different. So, so the funny thing is with commercial, it moves so quickly and demand is usually like, hey, we love your [00:27:00] stuff. We want to hire you for this. Can you have deliverable by this date? And usually you're, I mean, I'm such a yes person, so like, I'm like, no problem. And they'll be like, how am I gonna do that? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Wait, that's like tomorrow? Nicole Ashley: yes, they're usually like, I, it's honestly, no matter what, like, commercial stuff, always the deliverables, so the content that they want you to produce and send over is something that they want, like, immediately. So it's never, it's never like, hey, we're doing a campaign and you have a month or like, it's never like that, at least for photography. In my experience, maybe for video, it's different. So commercial is all over the map, but usually it starts off. Which is why I love this job is that I could wake up and check my email and my day could be totally different because of an email. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. Nicole Ashley: So. That's why I think mixing commercial with portrait and wedding work keeps this job so fun. It is, it's literally different every single day for me. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:28:00] It does. Nicole Ashley: yeah, it really does. It keeps you on your toes and it keeps things really exciting and, it keeps your brain working in different ways with photography. Like, Even how I would like a subject to a product. But with weddings, or, I guess I could use weddings as an example. ~Um, ~same thing. I do get a mix of people who contact me over social, so like Instagram or TikTok, but mostly Instagram, to reach out to inquire about weddings. And then I usually direct them to my emails because my socials do get a little nutty. And then from there, most of my clients I haven't met before, and a lot of them because I do share so much personal life online, they don't feel like they need to meet me. ~Um, ~they'll usually send, they'll be like, yeah, we want to hire for this. You have it. And if I do, then we go right into deposit and contract. And then usually we don't speak for like a year or something like that. [00:29:00] And then I would say high number, like 70 percent of clients, I'm meeting them on their wedding day. Or I'm meeting them, seeing them for the first time on their wedding day, like, to the point, and a lot of time because, not all, not always am I shooting here in my city. So I often I'm traveling out to see them, I'll, like, go in and, like, have to look for, like, a bridal robe and be like, okay, I'm going to the wedding wraps, I feel like I'm. Best friends with these strangers, which I think I was a big reason why I love weddings so much. But yeah, the, the, the start to finish process of working with clients with a wedding is so different than a commercial, setup. So it's hard to say like, this is the set, if that makes sense. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nicole Ashley: Mm-hmm. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, so, typically though, [00:30:00] let's say, let's say we go the wedding route. So you get the, the lead comes in through social, that lead, you, do you, are you now putting them into, into your focal back end and then like a whole bunch of stuff happens? Nicole Ashley: Yes, so I create kind of like a client portal, from them and, it's even better obviously if they write my website because then it's kind of starting to generate that for itself. And then it's great because then I know instead of going through like dozens of like notepad papers like I used to do, I know exactly what their retainer was depending on their package. I know, like their date and I'll ask them like if there's anything like. You know, sensitive topics are things I need to know about their weddings. I don't want to like, re ask from that. I'll know their collection number of hours that they want. And then from there, sometimes they book an engagement session or like, there's just like a lot of details that are in this client portal that just helps [00:31:00] me look like I have my stuff together. Because again, after a year, like you've shot so many different things. You're obviously going to forget so having like a point of reference that I can reference and I'm not like, who are you again? Like, that looks so rude. I can reflect on, like, everything within that client portal and look like that was like a fresh thing that we just talked about. So that's a huge reason why I love having that. And then from there, they can also, so they can sign their contract through there. I have so much details about how to prepare. I always send them like a welcome wedding guide. That outline lighting, vendors I love working with. Timeline, timeline example, so they can know how to structure their day if they need to know that. And that kind of helps them prepare for their day as well. So I'm not like repeating. Lots of questions I have a jam pack and then. I get them to send their [00:32:00] balance through that same portal. So, again, everything's in that 1 spot and then obviously. Meet with them and shoot the day. Um, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: are you using a specific tool for like delivery for galleries and stuff? Is that, is that all part of that as well? Or is there, is there a separate thing you use? Nicole Ashley: Sorry, it's separate. So I use Picktime. Picktime is phenomenal. Again, another company that I love, love, love the humans behind, but it's also just in my opinion I've had, I've tried several, galleries, in my opinion just like one of the best ones for delivery, presentation, support. Everything like that. So, and it looks very polished for clients to receive it and I always create a highlight slideshow for clients of, the photo cause I want them to, I don't want them to just open a gallery and just start like picking up photos and seeing how they look. I want them to watch this highlight slideshow and I tell them, like, get down together, like have a glass of [00:33:00] champagne, if you drank and like watch this together. And I literally make it like a movie and I have, you know, it's set up the way I want them to view the day. So yeah, I usually get them to watch that first and then go through their gallery. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Awesome. Okay, let's, let's dive a little bit into AI now. You have been using AI in your business for, for some time at this point. And I'm curious, now that you've got, AI in your various areas of your workflow, even Canva has AI at this point, Nicole Ashley: Mm hmm. I know. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~um, ~where, what does the What does the future of AI in photography look like to you? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: future of AI in photography look like to you? Nicole Ashley: I think this is only the beginning. For me, I know, like, when it first came out of the gates, a lot of people were very worried about it and very scared. To me, I look at it as a [00:34:00] positive. I can see it opening up so much doors. I see it giving time back to me for my family. It's only made me a stronger artist because, I can do things for clients that I couldn't do before. And again, just having the time to work on. Personal projects could be with my family. I do all of those things that I couldn't do before because I was just like locked by my computer. Makes me a better business person, a better artist for my clients, everything. So I look at it very positively. And I think it's here to stay and it's definitely not going anywhere. Now that we've had a taste. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you used any of, Photoshop. I mean, I know you're predominantly working in Lightroom, but have you played around with Photoshop's, AI tools for any retouching work or [00:35:00] anything like that? Nicole Ashley: Absolutely, generative fill is amazing. Again, I know, it's interesting because I just taught at a workshop where there was several different photographers in different arenas. So, some were like landscape, some were fashion. So it's interesting to get everyone's perspective because I think a lot of photographers, especially those in, commercial and fashion predominantly, Are a little bit more fearful of it, because that's where we're starting to see it, like, really overtake with AI, but I know for me, because I'm kind of layered in what I offer and what I do. ~Um, ~I've used it in all different arenas and it's only again, been like, positive and awesome. So, even for example, I had a client, where her husband struggles with mobility. So, I went to them and shot. In their, they're like, we'll just do photos, like, in our, like, garden [00:36:00] area. And it wasn't ideal for where we were shooting. ~Um. ~There were some, like, structures in the background and whatnot. And I was able to use, like, generative fill and AI to, like, extend the trees and to fill in the background and make it. Just more pleasing and they were really happy with that. Like, they, they were really glad. ~Um. ~So I know that it's a touchy subject because people are like, oh, people are going to start photoshopping that they're in Switzerland and when they're not and stuff like that. And yeah, like, that's going to be, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: but, Nicole Ashley: it's going to happen. But could you also Imagen someone like blowing up a huge picture of them and they're letting on people and like, oh my gosh, like, when did you go to China? And they're like, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I didn't. Nicole Ashley: Like, and they're like, cool. Like, I know, I haven't Scott Wyden Kivowitz: memory. Nicole Ashley: Yeah, yeah, like I haven't noticed a decline in like destination requests, but I've noticed like little things like people saying, [00:37:00] you know, Not requesting, but people saying like, oh, so you could like, literally make those houses mountains and you're like, yeah, like little, you know, like, things like that, but I haven't experienced people being like, can you make this German? And you're like, what? So, for me, it's, it's been very helpful with, With retouching sessions, so I've, I have utilized a lot or extending backgrounds doing it. Like, it's, I feel like, after each update, it's only getting better and better. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: you know, on this topic of like, it replacing, you know, certain types, you know, one of the areas where I know a lot of photographers are a little nervous is headshots, Nicole Ashley: Yeah, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and, you know, I've played around with all of these different AI tools, I mean, it's like, I'm in that world, so I have to play around with them, and I was like, you know, it's been two years since I created a new headshot for myself, and I, I needed a new one, and I'm like, you [00:38:00] know, let, let's see, let's see what this does. And the results were like, very funny. Nicole Ashley: yeah, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: and, and then, it was like, I don't know, August? August, yeah, August. I was, in New York City. I helped Sam Herd. I, I said to him like, Hey, can I just like help? I'll carry your stuff. I don't care. I just wanna help at your event. And like, just, you know, see you. Teach, you know, in your element, you know, in your own workshop, not in somebody else's workshop like your own thing. He's like, yeah, sure, come hang out. So I spent the day. I helped him out. Just hung out. Had a blast and then like before the couple came that was modeling during the day, he, he used me as a subject and he gave me, he sent me the photos and I'm like, this is my new headshot, like, this is, these are great. I shared it with the team and like, everybody's like, Scott, that's your personality. And that, that is what the AI, these like, headshot generators and [00:39:00] stuff can't get. It's like, sure, it can generate you, but it can't generate you with your personality. Nicole Ashley: Yeah, I've actually talked extensively. I actually taught. A workshop in Hawaii with Sam, and we were talking about AI. Because he's very passionate about it. And it is, that's, I mean, ultimately it's that. I think if you're, you know, looking, if you are in a position that you're, you need a headshot, like a very generic, whatever headshot for real estate or something, I don't know, just something where it's like, you just want Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Boring. Nicole Ashley: Sure. But even for me, like, the, like, I don't even call them headshot sessions. I call them portrait sessions because again, my process is like, we mood board together, we go over your outfit, hair and makeup that's involved, we even, right down to like, talking about the backdrop, your personality, [00:40:00] what, what inspired you to hire me for it? Like, there's so much that I know that's not just for me, that's for so many artists that go into it, that it's like, I want people to look at these photos, and I always think too, like, I want you when you're 80 to look back at these photos and be like, I love these photos. Not just like, AI generated, generic picture of me. I want you to be like, that was like, who I was when I was 20, 30, 40, 50, right? So, I think, I think there's a place for it. I think that it could help out, people who need that, like, quick, whatever, depending on the arena that they work in, but. There's always going to be a place where people also want the experience of having the photos taken too. So, again, I know some people are worried about it, but I'm just not, like, I'm just not, no. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, and this topic has come up a bunch in the in the podcast as well, [00:41:00] and like, the idea of, like, people who couldn't physically have a wedding. Sure, throw it into AI, and now you've got your wedding photos. Right? If you literally couldn't do it for some reason, maybe you just couldn't afford it, maybe whatever, you just went to the courthouse, You didn't even have a friend with a phone that could come whatever it is Sure, AI can help you create some create some photos that made it look like you had a wedding You won't have the memories but you have the photos, ~um ~so Anyway, it's a it's a very Nicole Ashley: it's Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, Nicole Ashley: think it's still just all comes back down to, like, experience. Like, even, a big reason why I love working with. For couple photos, is that I love making it feel like a date for them. Like they get all dressed up and they get to connect and we get these beautiful photos of them again that I think about like when they're like 80 or something looking back on. ~Um, ~and the goal is obviously to give them like the best [00:42:00] photos, but the best experience. So when they look at those photos, I think that's the biggest thing. When you look at photos, you remember how you felt when you did it. Versus obviously, if you're looking at an AI version, you're just like, oh, that was a whatever, but I want people to look at it and be like, we were really happy or we, oh, we went out for that really nice dinner after, like, you know what I mean? So, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Versus, I remember when I thought of that prompt and it was so good, Nicole Ashley: I know. And honestly, that's Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ever. Nicole Ashley: it's not to hate on it because I think there's a place Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, yeah, Nicole Ashley: exist. And like, I'm just saying, like, I'm so not bothered by it. And I think I, I'm in a lot of photo groups where people are, and I just think people are wasting too much time being like Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I agree. Nicole Ashley: it. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So to wrap up the conversation on AI, you, you, you've been using Imagen for, for, for all your editing needs and, Which, which we love, which we love to [00:43:00] see, How did Imagen impact your life? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: impact your life? Nicole Ashley: honestly, like I don't take it lightly, how much time it's given me back. My family is like the most important thing to me. Time with my daughter, she's only three and you know, this. beautiful age and it's really hard because I think back to even last year when like I was first talking to you about using it and I was like, I don't even have time to set up a profile. Like, I don't even have time to do this. And now we laugh about it because you're like, Imagen the time you would have had if you did it when I said it. And I literally would be. My husband would be cooking dinner and I would have my computer in the kitchen and she would be saying, play with me and I'd be like, I just have to get this done. I just have to do that. Like, it sucks looking back on that, but it, it makes me so grateful to know how much more [00:44:00] efficient I am and that I'm still giving, if it's not the same, but better quality to my clients. So, You know, I wish you could hear how much it talks behind your back in such a positive way because I am, I'm just so grateful because it streamlines that process for me, but I still get to spend the time that I really love on the photos because I, I do enjoy editing, but because I am such a picky retoucher, especially with skin is that now I feel like that process isn't so overwhelming because the, the things that were overwhelming, like, Straightening out photos, taking down highlights, like just things that were like tedious is taken care of. So that's just like I'm going into it and now like the fun editing begins. So yeah, I mean, I can't say enough good things about it. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Lindsay Coulter, [00:45:00] she, she coined the term, she coined the term, straight out of Imagen, which has come up a bunch in the, in the Imagen community. I'm curious. How many times, are you finding, how often are you finding yourself SOOI. Nicole Ashley: Oh, definitely for anything, ~um. ~Like, scenery wise or anything where it's not an uptight portrait, for sure, yeah, it's like, I look at it and I'm like, oh my gosh, like, and I have, because I am particular, I will actually go and, like, open up another catalog and, like, kind of retouch a few photos and compare them and I'm like, yeah, sometimes it's doing a better job than me manually, like, going through and, like, obsessing. ~Um, ~but that was taking the time and the care to set it up properly in, in the beginning. So, yeah, it's just, I mean, what can you say, like, to a program that's giving you more time to, like, with your people? [00:46:00] Like, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right, Nicole Ashley: insane. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: right. Awesome. Nicole, where can listeners learn more about you? Connect with you and of course, see your incredible photographs. Nicole Ashley: Oh, thank you. I would say I'm the most active on Instagram. So, it's just my name. So, Nicole Ashley. But obviously, they can connect over email, which is hello at nicoleashley. ca. And then, you know, my future blog, if I ever get around to that, but I would definitely say I'm the most active on, on Instagram. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Thank you so much for, for hopping in, for chatting and for sharing all of your workflow, behind the scenes stuff. And, yeah, I'm glad we were able to make this work. Nicole Ashley: I know. Thank you so much for having me. You know that I love you guys and the whole team. And I, I love talking with this stuff because [00:47:00] again, like, ~um. ~I wish that people were more open about this when I started off. It was always such a guessing game and it's so cool to see how technology has evolved and how much it's helping Photographers get their lives back and focus on the stuff they love to do. Like, I honestly think More people who will get into the industry will actually stay in it now because The burnout won't be as high and it's more achievable to do this as a full time career with all of the advancements in technology. So I'm, I'm glad I stuck it out. I'm glad I get to see all of this. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Definitely. Thank you so much. Nicole Ashley: Thank you. Thank you so much nicole for taking the time to chat with me to share all of your workflows there's so many great takeaways so much laughter so much fun. i love chatting with you it's always a good time ​ [00:48:00]