Streamlining Headshot Workflows and Payment Models for Immediate Growth with Seshu Badrinath

Seshu: [00:00:00] these are photographs of you, but they're not for you, they're for your clients. They're for your clients who you've never met before, who need to meet you and understand who you are and how confident you are and how approachable you are in these portraits. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:01:00] Seshu is a headshot photographer from Connecticut, known for his knack in capturing the friendly essence of professionals through his lens. With a warm approach, he ensures his subjects are at ease, even amidst the studio lights, making every photo session a comfortable experience. The journey began in 2009 with Connecticut Headshots, initiated through a humble Twitter campaign. Now, Seshu is the go to photographer for small business owners, executives, actors, and healthcare professionals keen on distinguishing themselves in their field. Residing in Avon, Connecticut with his family, he continues to make people look their relaxed best, one headshot at a time. This episode is a special one to me, as Seshu is a dear friend of mine and happened to be the photographer that my wife and I hired to photograph our engagement [00:02:00] photos many years ago, without further ado. Here's my conversation with my friend Seshu. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Welcome, Seshu. It's so nice to see your face. It's been too long. So, yeah, I'm, I'm so glad we're able to make, to make this work. So you, you have done many things over the years. You have done weddings, you have done Engagement sessions which I am honored to have been one of those clients you have done sports photography, you have done I mean, of course, headshots, you have also ran a, a sort of photography media site over the years, which, you know, is now possibly being sunset. That's what we'll see where it goes. But What we're gonna be talking about today, I'm really excited about because it's something that I've always enjoyed over the [00:03:00] years and that is headshots and we're gonna dig into your headshot workflows, so, Seshu: Love it. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: uh, Yeah the first question I ask every guest is What is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing you do For the photographic process that has saved you time. This is the the part behind the camera. You know, you're looking through the camera or you're setting up your, your, your sets. What is one thing you do, you do during that part of your workflow that saves you time overall? Seshu: So that's a great question. I would say before I get to the gear get to my lights, get to the backgrounds I sit and talk to my clients. So, headshots. Be able to talk to them and get an understanding as to what they're hoping to achieve with their headshots. So, once they're clear on what they want, then I can set up the lights accordingly. Right, so, most of the lighting that I do [00:04:00] is pretty much of a one or two light setup. So, I set the lights up first to make sure my client is lit properly. But even going, peeling back before the client even arrives, I would say I check for things like is my ISO set to the right, ISO, is my white balance set to the right white balance, is my shutter speed set are my flashes firing, you know, things like that, you know, essentially the, the very basic, like, mechanics of photography, because I don't want it to be, Where the, the, you know, the client walks in and I'm starting to figure all that out in front of them, you know, so those are, those are the first things I take care of. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So I have two questions regarding this. So you said in many cases you're using one light or two lights, let's say. Are you, are you using a lot of [00:05:00] reflectors or any, like, V flats or type of things? Like, what are you just to get a little nerdy on the photo gear, what, how does that work when you're using such minimal lighting? Seshu: So I do use a reflector, usually from the bottom And, there's one main light, one reflector in the bottom, And a secondary light you, usually from the back or as a hairlight typically and possibly a third light for the background itself. If the background needs to be lit, maybe the background gets a light as well. So, maybe two to three lights, ideally, you know. I Scott Wyden Kivowitz: If you had to give a percentage of how many of your headshot clients are asking for studio style versus environmental where they work versus outdoor, how would you break that down? Seshu: I would say a majority are still coming into my home [00:06:00] studio. So, I would like that to be more 50 50 because I love working with people on site. The environmental portraits are my... Most challenging because there are more factors to deal with than, than, than the lights I have here, which I can control, right? I can turn them on, turn them off you know, in an office setting or even outdoors you know, but there are no lights, but you bring your own, you have to deal with the weather, you know, you have to deal with the, whether it's going to rain or it's going to be windy or whatever. I typically don't work with assistants, so I'm doing everything by myself, and so if I have to set up everything, I have to, Bring more gear on site. It just takes a little bit longer in terms of time, but it's definitely doable and, you know, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it would be great if it was a 50 50 mix. It's more like a 90 percent in studio and maybe 10 percent on location kind of a thing. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. [00:07:00] Yeah, I definitely the in studio stuff though is fun of course. I mean, I feel like all headshots are fun but, but once you get to go to where the person, like, is, is working day in, day out, and you, you really get to see what they're involved in, that's where it gets exciting and super challenging, because, like you said, you've got, you know, there's, the chance of them having a mixture of tungsten, daylight, and, and fluorescent is pretty high. So you've got a lot, a lot of, a lot of work there. Seshu: And, and here's the thing. Here's the thing, Scott. You can, you can ask the client, Hey, what kinda lighting do you have? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: They don't know Seshu: they have, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, they don't know. Seshu: it's, it's a beautifully lit, it's a beautifully lit office space. And then of course there's surprises waiting for you when you get there, you know, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Let's move into the business side of things now. What is one thing that you do for the business that saves you time or money? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What is one thing you do for the business that either either saves you time or money?[00:08:00] Seshu: Wow. Saves me time. I would say really communicating clearly with your clients ahead of time and. Maybe even multiple times before they arrive for their session is key. I think that clarity of communication has helped me save time, and it has made me money because of folks who understand that they're getting clear directions from a photographer are a little bit more comfortable with you working with you, and even trusting you with not just the photos you're making, but... With the way you're gonna handle them after the fact, right after the photographs are delivered to the, to them, they know they're gonna be taken care of. So, there's, there's a sense of comfort that comes from, from being able to receive a, a short list of, hey, bring this prepared to drink water or, you know, take, get a good night's rest or something to that effect. 'cause people don't know, you know, I've had people [00:09:00] walk in with Sunburns and things like that, and I, and that's, that was before I began communicating with them, and they just arrived. They were like, get a picture taken of me, it doesn't matter, right? But I have to tell them, those things are important, like, because those things cannot be usually taken care of by a retoucher and so I have to walk them through with clear communication. So that saved, that saved me time, and saved, saved them time as well and then, I'm making more money because of that too. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, it's, you've got a, you've got, there's a trend going on here in this episode, and that is communication, right? So you're already talking about communication Seshu: Sure. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: From the photographic side, you know, making sure that the background, you know, is gonna be appropriate for, for what they're looking for and potentially what they wear doesn't, you know, conflict with the background or make them blend in Seshu: absolutely. Right, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: right. Versus, versus Hey, I got a sunburn, [00:10:00] you know, do I need to rebook the session now? I just lost money. Right. , so, Seshu: Well, no, I, I , well, a rebooking just means they, they, they get to come back and we get to work together again. I don't, I don't see it as a, as a loss of revenue because they've already paid for the, for the session. It's just that they have to just come back when. They, they, they don't have a sunburn, you know, anymore. You know, so that's, that's definitely doable. But the, the rest of the things you mentioned, like the outfits, bringing outfits, you know, talking to them about what outfits are gonna make them look good. Most people walk in. Initially, again, when I wasn't giving people the kind of communication, they would just walk in with whatever they thought was the best, and it was only one outfit, and now I, in my, in my communication, I say, please bring somewhere between three to seven different outfits. We're not going to go through all seven outfits, you know, because that's the first worry is like, oh my God, I'm going to get photographed in like seven outfits. No, you're not. It is about having those options in [00:11:00] your studio so that you, you know, in my studio, so that you can, You can say, hey, okay, this worked, this didn't work, we set it aside, it's okay, you know, there's no pressure to, to, to wear every single outfit or pressure to buy every single photograph taken in every single outfit either, so, yeah Scott Wyden Kivowitz: let's, let's move into the editing side of things. As a headshot photographer, you're not doing, for each client specifically, you're not doing high volumes. If you're doing one corporation and doing all their C level, sure, maybe at that point you've got high volume, right? Just because the sheer number of C level people there might be. And how big the corporation is, if you've got, I know I did a, I did a, a, a C level session for a, a pretty big corporation, it was like 22 C levels, and I spent the entire day and I walked away with thousands of headshots to have to go through, [00:12:00] right? But your typical headshot, you've got a very unique situation as where you're, You know how you, how you want to cull you know how you want to edit, so in that case, What is one thing that you do for editing that has saved you time? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what is one thing you do for editing that has saved you time? Seshu: I think the way I'm gonna answer that is that you have to get your lighting right. I think that that's your first step. If you have your lighting right, your editing is going to go much faster, much, much better. Obviously, make sure your images are sharp, and your exposures are great. To begin with and the editing is left to a real minimum in terms of cleaning up the backgrounds or if, if it's a high school senior, it could be, you know, skin issues or if it's, if it's a woman with long hair on a summer day and it's, and it's all, it's flyaway season, you know, we gotta [00:13:00] take care of that, right? Those are things that my researcher handles and I, I sort of pass it off to, To him to take care of for me. So, but most of the things I take care of are the details which are in front of me right there, which, which I can control. Things like your collar's off or you know, could be the way they're parting their hair and it's all wrong. Or they're, they have glasses in their, in their, in their, their, they have lenses in their glasses and I say, Hey, you know, those lenses aren't really working out. Can you pop them off? Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't, and if they can't, I just say, take your glasses off, we'll just photograph you without your glasses. That's doable as well, so those kinds of things are part of the edit in a way, because ultimately we're, I'm trying to deliver the very best photograph for my clients, and each one of those things could be distracting in the end, and I feel like if I can help them lessen those [00:14:00] distractions in the photos, There's less and less editing to do in the first place. You know, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I, I think you also, you know, you subtly hinted to another thing that you're doing, which is outsourcing the retouching, so that you don't have to do it yourself, so you don't have to take your time You're, you're, in addition to ensuring you're getting the best possible image in camera to do less editing on your part, you're not doing the, the I'm gonna say, cause I hate doing it, the more annoying part of, of the flyaways and the, the skin blemishes and stuff, I, I just, I don't enjoy doing that part, so then to me it's annoying, so you outsourcing it is a very, very smart thing to get it off your plate. Okay. Seshu: No, thank you. Yeah. I, it's, it's, it hasn't come easy. I mean, it comes at a cost, I'll be honest with you. I mean, it's, it's not inexpensive, but at the same time, You know, I'm able to pass that off [00:15:00] to my clients to carry on, and you know, they're paying for it in a way, and I feel that it has allowed me a greater opportunity to go out and network, if I want to go out and network or market my company, if I want to do that, it allows me to do all the other things like building a business versus sitting there thinking, is, you know, someone's hair's off kilter in one frame or the other, you know, that's, that doesn't make me money. You know, what makes me money is, of course, bringing in more business. So, you know, that's, that's really the short end of that, you know. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's, that's, that is why one of the, the benefits that Imagine customers are getting out of using Imagine is, is they're, they're setting off, you know, their, their photos to have those, those tedious mundane edits done by Imagine. They get it back and, and now they can, during that, during that time, that, that, And so I feel like they 12 hours, they might have [00:16:00] been editing a portrait session, or a wedding, or a sports game, or whatever it is, You know, during that time, they could've been booking more clients, They could be, they could be taking a nap. They could be doing whatever it is they wanted to being doing, right? So, so Seshu: think, I think, I think tools like, imagine 1 So, you know, more and more important for our industry because it saves us time. Because it, it saves us time and also is able to produce a beautiful product in the end. You know what I mean? I think it's a two per. You know, I think, I think having, I mean, full disclosure here, I have not used Imagen and I would love to, but I don't know whether for a volume set of, you know, two, three hundred photographs it makes sense, especially when my clients are selecting somewhere between six to eight photographs in their session, at the end of their session and that I'm [00:17:00] sending off to my retoucher. So, A lot of the culling is done sort of on site, and then obviously the editing is done by Retoucher, so, but for a wedding photographer, for a sports photographer, someone who goes to photograph a, you know, a football game, or a soccer match, or a baseball game, you know, with thousands of photographs, oh my god, I'm sure it's a huge time saver, for sure, you Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, a hundred percent. So we talked about photographic process. We talked about business. We talked about editing. What is one thing that you do after a session that has increased business? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Let's talk a bit about what you do after the session. So we know, you and I know, I don't know if the listeners know, but you and I know headshots have a very specific structure to selling them, to the pricing, to, you know, the sort of that, the IPS aspect of headshots, you know, so, so what do you do? What is one [00:18:00] thing that you do, after the session that has increased business? Seshu: I love this question because, you know, when, when somebody walks in the door looking for your help and you just photograph them and put their photographs on a, an online gallery and say good luck, make choices that's, in my opinion, a disservice. Because, number one, they're not photographers, they don't know what to look for. Right? They may know, have an inkling, but they don't have the way I'm looking at the photographs and my guidance is missing. So when I finish up working with a client, I have them pretty much hovering over my laptop and we're making decisions based on expression, lighting, and anything else that just sort of strikes them as, hey, that's a great photograph, right? We mark the ones we like. And I say we because I am marking it as I go along, as I'm seeing those [00:19:00] photographs pop up on my computer, I'm showing them, or guiding them, or telling my clients who are standing next to me, exactly what it is that is resonating back to me. Right, and having not met my clients before, I am that third party in the world that they're going to be, they're really making those photographs for. So, and I tell them, very candidly, I say these are photographs of you, but they're not for you, they're for your clients. They're for your clients who you've never met before, who need to meet you and understand who you are and how confident you are and how approachable you are in these portraits. So that when they feel that vibe, that they can trust you, they'll pick up the phone and call you. And that is usually what... And that really sort of turns the light bulb on for a lot of my clients that go, yeah, that's what I want. And they're not going to get that if they see those photographs on in an online gallery where they have [00:20:00] no, no guidance, right? So I'm there standing next to them, guiding them, figuring out exactly which set of photographs really evoke that kind of a response in the, in, in what they, what they're both seeing, right? Once they've made their choices, those go to my retoucher. Simple as that. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. I need to grab something because there's the next part. Seshu: Oh, okay. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: this is something I do for every guest. Well, started doing it in season two. Pick a color. Seshu: Let's go with the orange. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Alright. Okay, I'm going to start flipping through these and you just tell me when to stop. Seshu: Okay, go ahead, stop. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. This is my favorite part. I love this part. Because I have no idea what I'm about to ask you until right now. Seshu: Awesome.[00:21:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay, well you got, you got, you got some kids so this is going to be a good one. Seshu: Okay, yeah. Oh Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Which celebrity do you think is a positive role model for kids today? Seshu: boy. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I know who, what I would answer for my daughter, I don't know who I would answer for my son. So I'm, I'm gonna be curious what you're gonna answer. Seshu: Both my kids are, I mean, my boys, they love sports, NFL. One of them is a Patriots fan, so I would say Tom Brady, for him. The other one happens to be a Seahawks fan. I don't know why or how, but I know, right? Just random. Yeah, I don't know [00:22:00] a whole lot of people on that team, unfortunately but I would say somebody who is sports related, who's doing positive things in the community that kind of person is usually somebody that'd probably be an inspiration for For Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I mean, I would imagine that your, that your son who likes the Seahawks probably has some good respect and appreciation for what Tom Brady does. I would imagine so. Seshu: unless they're Scott Wyden Kivowitz: he's gotta, he has to, he has to. Seshu: Well, un unless, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: much. Seshu: well un, unless, unless they're, you know, the, the Patriots are playing the sea ox in some random way. Which had ha which has happened in the past, but, and there was tus. Trust me, there's a lot of drama at home Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah Seshu: but I, yeah, I, I, I think from, from a, from a very sort of sports. Perspective, yeah, there's definitely respect for somebody who's done something consistently well who's, who's delivered [00:23:00] on just delivered on a mission, really, you know, who's, who's said, I'm going to commit myself to doing this and do it well. So that's commendable. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, definitely. Alright this is the sort of dig deep part of the show where I ask you to look down at your business from the 30,000 foot view down and if you can Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: please share an outline breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery. Seshu: So, a client usually connects with me through LinkedIn or through has found me through Google you know doing a Google search and either contacts me through my website or pick up picks up the phone and calls me directly and says I'm looking.... for headshots. Can you help me? So we have a conversation. We, it [00:24:00] has to start with that. It has to start with a conversation. I usually send an email back or a text back and say, Hey, let's have a, let's have a, a short, brief conversation. So I get it. Understand what it is that you're trying to do and, and why, you know, why is it, why is it important for you to have headshots at this point in time? I'll give you a quick example. Just last week I had a senior vice president of a. Healthcare company Con contact me. And he contacted me and then he passed the, passed it off to the marketing person at his company to co to just sort of finish the deal in a way to schedule his session and, and to buy the portraits and things like that. But he, his, his his thing was he, he was receiving an award and he needed something that was representative of, of his of his role in the company, essentially, you know, to, so I got him into my studio scheduled an [00:25:00] event. Scheduled the session. He came in. We worked together. He, as I've described already, we've gone through the photo session. We've made all the choices based on outfits and things like that. And. The photos are now with the retoucher. Essentially, that's where it is. I mean, so, once the images have been selected, I have marked them, I've labeled them, I've pushed them into a folder that's specific to the retoucher. The retoucher takes over and starts the process based on my notes, and each photograph, each frame that is ordered is sonyf1 your xf banda to detail explain as to the is that are freeman to get digest would not that explanation my recruiter does the basics of course but if there's no a button that's to shine me or something that needs to be taken out or you know we don't get a shout the buttons off oh but when I need to tell him he's not gonna read my mind right on so being able to [00:26:00] communicate that I mean whether to call it kind of rital jressle you have to communicate you have to get on there and start writing what you're thinking, because otherwise nothing gets done and nothing gets done well, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Do you ever mark up the photos like like it was Seshu: I do. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: print? You Seshu: Yeah. I, I take it into Photoshop, especially if it's specific things that my client has described to me as you know, bothersome. You know, like just a few days ago I photographed a gentleman who had been in a car accident and had a scar on his the top of his head and Usually, I didn't really want to bring it up, but I did bring it up during the conversation. And he goes, I really don't like that scar. It reminds me of some really bad times. I said, we'll take it out. So, having conversations and communicating is like such a big part of this business. You know, I'm still learning how to do it. You know, I'm not like, you know, I'm not at a point where I can say I haven't done any kind of, I haven't made any mistakes. But I [00:27:00] feel like. It's gotten better and better and better as you start to just put yourself out there and ask questions because once you ask questions, in my mind at least, you're coming from a great place of of help and service, and that person who you're asking the questions to understands that eventually. It's not, you're not being nosy, you're actually asking questions so that you can help them better. So, the, the images are marked up sometimes, they, I, I put red marks on them or red arrows on them using Photoshop and I usually add a reference file to the other photo, the original RAW photograph that I delivered to my retoucher and he understands exactly what needs to be done and sends them back to me using Dropbox and you know, I get a confirmation that says, hey, you've got new photographs to, to, to look at. And here's the beautiful thing, with my retoucher at least, I'm able to come back to, go back to him and say, hey, some things are off here, can you, can you Continue to work on this a little [00:28:00] bit. He is so good at, again, listening to what my needs are. And just a a hat tip to him. He is his attitude is that of a, of a team player. Okay? So when, he's not just some vendor that I push photos out to and takes care of them. He actually listens to what I have to say or ask of him and responds to it. Ultimately by saying, yeah, I can do it. Or so sorry, I can't, this is a little outta my range, you know, kind of thing. So there's, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: he's, he's portraying himself as part of your business, not hmm. Seshu: right, right. And so, you know, really, I, I do have to thank him for also my, the growth of my business because once you start working with somebody like that and he's, he's consistently helping you, you know, produce these portraits the audience sees that you're also consistent. You're also being able to, Do this without, you know, your [00:29:00] colors being all over the place or anything like that. So ultimately the photographs are retouched delivered to me. I look at them, make sure that they are of the same quality that I had hoped my client would receive. So there's a quality check and then I resize them to, for, for their use. You know, I resize them for web use or resize them for. Big thank you to Want to get that, go that extra, makes sure The photographs are usable right away. I don't want my client to go Their so big I cant do anything with them I can't put them on LinkedIn I dont want to hear those things you know cause I the now my client uses those photographs More quickly start to see an impact that they can make their their clients lies as well You know ultimately that's the goal and I tell people this all the time, I, I really do feel headshots are the first [00:30:00] bridge to a client's life, you know, you're, you're extending a bridge out to your clients and the client goes, yeah, I wanna, I wanna climb onto that bridge and come and meet you halfway, let's make, let's do business and that is through the headshot really, you know, because it, it is the first thing that people are seeing, you know. TNT. TNT. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Years ago, I know that we both purchased, we both purchased Tony Taaffe Headshots course, right? His the business, what do they call it? TT Method, right? No, that's what it's called. TNT, yeah, yeah. Are you still using stuff you learned from his course in your business today? Seshu: Most definitely, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Cool so, I don't think that a lot of the listeners because a lot of our, a lot of Imagen customers, a lot of the community, they are more high volume, right, photographers, so, could you talk a little bit about your, [00:31:00] The pricing you don't to share your exact numbers But like how the because it works different for headshots than it does for in this method It works different than for headshots than it does for let's say an engagement session, right? I'm Can you talk about your headshot photography pricing structure? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: can you talk a little bit about like the structure of how the pricing works For your headshots again. You don't have to give exact numbers but like in general Seshu: Well, generally, the specifics are, I mean, I don't want to go into the mechanics of what he teaches because that's propriety to him. But I can say generally what I do having used his approach is there's a flat fee for the session and that just covers my time, my ability to coach my clients in a way that is going to produce the work that they are going to enjoy seeing of themselves and also their clients are going to be able to [00:32:00] connect with as well. And on the back end of it is the idea that We want to the photographs are o, can be ordered in, in, individually, essentially, you know, there's a flat fee that covers them for multiple outfits, multiple backgrounds you know, really just a, a fee that just sort of covers everything, you know, really, there's no surprises, hey surprise, you've changed your outfit, we're going to, you know, add another 50 bucks to the, to the session. None of that stuff, you know, we want to be able to prove, be able to just say come in, work together. What you, what you end up ordering at the tail end of that session is up to you, so, and that is priced individually, you know, and those are typically, you know, things, and that's based on the person's ability to pay or the desire to pay, too, you know, if they see 20 photographs that they've never seen of themselves in multiple outfits, I'm, [00:33:00] I'm not, Gonna say No, no, you're only gonna, you said on the phone you only wanted one. I'm gonna give you only one, you know. So the, the, the method, I guess the the, the genius of the method, I think would be to say it allows clients the ability to purchase as many photographs as they want, you know, which is how a business grows, you know, being able to produce work that's good. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Seshu: And. The, the, the client is given the final say in how many photographs they want, you know, there's no, there's no commitment to just one or five or ten or whatever, so, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Just to so by the way, I, when I do headshots, I use the same Seshu: sure, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: system. I love it. I think it definitely is makes the process more enjoyable on both sides. And you know, especially you have to, of course, put the put that up front, you know, because it's not a, as I, as we said, it's not a common thing [00:34:00] in for photographers in general to do this method. So, Seshu: if I if I can say one thing, when I first started, when I first started as a headshot photographer, I remember my, I believe I was charging 150, and it was for a 30 minute session and it was for one file, One Dizzle file, right? And yeah, I can't, I can't, I can't believe I did that. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I mean, been there, done that. Seshu: Yeah, the reason is, is I, because I would, that 30 minutes would always morph into an hour or hour and 15 and I would have, I'd be like, yeah, that's cool, we're having fun, let's keep going. Now I, I do charge a, a premium for my time but it is unlimited in terms of. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. Seshu: You I sense, you know when there energy level starts to dip in about. The 90 minute mark. I know I have to start wrapping it up, [00:35:00] and usually I, I give each my clients at two hour window to work. It and we get it done you know, honestly, that's it's it's been going really, really well so. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. It's been really fun to watch, watch that part of your business grow over the years. It's been a lot of fun, because I remember when that, you know, you were doing headshots, but like, that brand didn't exist. So I, it was nice to see, you know, it come to fruition and then just grow. Just to, just to tie things in a little bit where this the structure of, of, you know, you've got your flat rate, and then you are charging really what your client wants to buy, right? This pay, pay per image type of thing, which is also how, People get started with Imagine, right? So, at Imagine, we've everybody comes on, comes on immediately as it pays you go. You pay for only what you need. [00:36:00] We do have annual plans, but for the most part, everybody's, the comfort level of where everybody wants is per image. So, for high volume, super high volume, you know, like wedding wedding companies are doing, you know, 30, 40, 50, yes, there are annual plans to, to, to help with that. But for the people like or headshots or you know family sessions or or anything that's more lower volume That's where the pay as you go is really really handy. So with that said You are currently not using AI in your business, and I think it's it's interesting, but I know you're you're you're exploring the options that are out there You're you're looking you're looking at like what could help with your headshot business I'm curious, as somebody who is starting to look into that process, as somebody who is interested in taking advantage of what's out there What does the future of AI in photography look like to you? --- Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what does the future [00:37:00] of AI and photography look like to you? Seshu: Wow, that is a tough, tough question, man. I think there's gonna be, I know what I would be comfortable with. I can tell you that much. I don't know what the future is gonna be like. I mean, that's hard to say. I feel like I'm already seeing the incorporation of AI in, in photographs, you know. That's not, News to anybody now, you know, if you, if you look at photographs that are on Facebook or wherever really, you know, you are starting to see elements of AI whether it's dropping in skies or adding, you know, really other elements that weren't even in the photograph to begin with, you know, like snowflakes and all kinds of cool things are out there. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:38:00] Seshu: Is that for me? I don't know. I don't know where that's gonna go. I know there was another wonderful photographer, Gary Hughes, who wrote an article recently about using AI and I know, I know he uses it to some extent to, to drop in backgrounds that you know, his clients haven't been photographed in but, Now it can be easily dropped into, you know, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. Seshu: so that may be the way I go. I may, I mean, you know, I, I may go to a, an office space because a client says, Hey we wanna have 20 people photographed in this office space, but, you know, everyone's gonna be busy from nine to five. Where, when can I get this place empty right in the background? I can't, I, I'd have to go in at, at eight o'clock in the morning, get one nice sort of template frame, and then start dropping people into it. Onto it you know, later on. That's, that's possibly where I go with headshots. You [00:39:00] know, if, if clients really are starting to ask for that. I don't know if I answered your question, Scott, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: No, no, I think, I think it's good. You know, as, as you're talking, it, it, it made me think like, so Photoshop's generative AI that's now built into Photoshop has a lot of capabilities like what you just mentioned replacing the background with whatever you can think of and type in a prompt. Seshu: sure, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But one area where it could be useful for, for you in, at some point is, let's say you have a client come and they say, you know, I brought the yellow shirt, but I really wish I had the pink one. And now in Photoshop, you can literally select the shirt and be like, make it a pink shirt. And now it goes from yellow to pink. And you didn't have to do a thing, like, you literally didn't have to select the shirt perfectly, it just did it. So I think, you know, I think the, for headshots specifically, like, there's a lot that's gonna be coming. Seshu: hmm. I think commercial [00:40:00] applications are definitely, I can see that being used in a great way, you know, like you mentioned, you know, moving things in and out of frame or adding color or texture or I mean, just being able to tell a different story based on what the, you know, the main subject is in the frame, you know, we can, we can definitely do kind of all those fun things and maybe those are things that are, what, Artists are doing at the moment with things like Midjourney or Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, Seshu: any other, all the other tools that are out there, you know, but, you know, that, that's the thing is that number one is can you commercialize it? Number two is can you copyright it? Scott Wyden Kivowitz: right. Seshu: The answer is no to both of those right now, right? So, that's, that's the challenge, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is Seshu: don't know where, where I'm going with that, but I feel like from a headshot perspective, I'm going to focus on that. Thank you. Be able to work with clients one on one, be able to get [00:41:00] expressions that are honest and authentic to them, and not mess with that, you know, because I feel like that's important, at least for my clients right now, that's super important, they don't want to see themselves in, you know, situations where they've never been in, you know, as options, you know what I mean, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, I think like the in Gary, you know, you brought Gary up, he's done some videos on the professionalheadshots. com or whatever it is like where where it's, it's AI generated full top to bottom head shot, right? And I think We're already seeing people utilizing it, right, and skipping the human photographer, but I do think that there will always be the person who appreciates that personal touch, that one on one, that relationship that they've built, and the creativity that you get from an actual person over an [00:42:00] AI fully generated thing. I think that will always exist and so I'm glad that, you know, You're looking to utilize it more for your work, not to replace yourself. You know what I mean? Like, you're looking to potentially enhance your work, not take it over with pure AI. So, yeah. Seshu: Yeah, I think you can, that's a safe bet. I mean, is that, you know, there are, you know, I can think of one family session where I photographed a family outdoors and, you know, there was no sky to speak of really, you know, and I dropped in a sky using one of these tools and it looks great and they bought multiple prints and I'm not looking at myself and going, oh, that's not true, that wasn't true. The folks, I didn't change anything about the people in the photograph. That's, that's, that's [00:43:00] where I think I draw the line. It's like when I start working with people, I don't want them looking at any, any different from they were when I first photographed them. You know, I think that's important to me, you know. But there's such, so many variations to this debate, you know, like working, even introducing the photograph in Photoshop and, and processing it through one One platform or another changes the reality of it, right? So, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Seshu: where are we going to go with this, really, you know? Where are we going to be most comfortable or uncomfortable, essentially, you know? Where is that line? Where are we drawing that line? Um, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And I think that line is basically. Figuring out what you are comfortable with and what your clients are comfortable with, and that, that clears it up at the end of the Seshu: absolutely, Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So everybody will have their own line. It's just a matter of figuring out what your own line is. Seshu: There you go, yeah. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. Thank you Seshu, [00:44:00] for, for, for hopping out with me for this awesome chat. Where can listeners learn more about you? Connect with you and of course, see your incredible headshot photography. Seshu: Oh, thank you, man. I appreciate the opportunity again for speaking with you. We've done this many times before. Scott Wyden Kivowitz: We have on different podcasts, Seshu: I know, right? Yes. I appreciate the, the opportunity to speak with you about workflow and how important it is to get communication right from the very, from the very first step that you're working with clients. Connecticutheadshots. com is my website. Connecticut is all spelled out and it's a long state name, but spelled, Connecticutheadshots. com. Type it out, folks! It's not that difficult and I'm online on Facebook I'm on LinkedIn come and connect with me, happy to, to be of service to any of you, or really, you know, if you're in Connecticut or in the nearby states and you need a headshot, [00:45:00] give me a call. You're Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Amazing. Thank you so much. Seshu: welcome! Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Thank you so much for this awesome conversation, Seshu. I know that so many headshot photographers are just got their brains turning and the wheels moving and they've got lots of new takeaways to put into action. This is very, very exciting, I am sure, for all of them. ​