How AI Can Improve Your Wedding Photography Business with Michael Zawadzki

[00:00:00] Mike Zawadzki: Especially and it's one of those like old cliche outages, like time is money. And so I've tried to cut down the number of images that are shooting, which is hard. [00:00:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Welcome to [00:00:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Workflows presented by ImagenAI workflows is a podcast about saving you time and money in your photography business here from people just like you put down that camera for little connect the headphones and get to work with. [00:00:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Today in episode two of workflows, I am chatting with New Jersey wedding photographer. Mike Zawakdzi. Mike is one of the leading he photographers in the world. He has a distinctive style that helps us couples. Remember their wedding day memories in a timeless, bold and genuine way. Mike has been photographing weddings for over a decade and enjoys a technically challenging low light situation. [00:00:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: As much as he does a stunning once in a lifetime sunset. He typically starts with traditional poses that makes older members of families smile. Then based on the report, he builds with the clients. He mixes in more personalized and creative shots of couples based on their preferences and vibe. Mike enjoys, meeting new couples and learning about their unique love stories, which helps the subjects feel comfortable in front of his camera. [00:01:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: No matter how shy or introverted they may. In a society where we are bombarded with negative self image content on social media, with algorithms that help create false narratives about how we should look Mike's philosophy in photography and life is to reject the status quo. He firmly believes everyone deserves to have a beautiful photograph of them. [00:01:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: No matter what their age size race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation means. When not photographing weddings, Mike can be found, seeking out the best hidden gems of New Jersey pizzerias and spending quality time cooking, delicious impromptu meals with his girlfriend, Melanie, we're going to dive right in to my conversation with Mike. [00:02:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Let's go. Hi, Mike. [00:02:04] Mike Zawadzki: Hey, how's it going? [00:02:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Good. [00:02:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I'm going to act like we haven't talked in the past hour, but we just got finished wrapping up a live stream for the ImagenAI community. So we really have been talking for an hour. [00:02:16] Mike Zawadzki: Yeah. A long time. No. See, my first [00:02:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: question for you is is what is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time? [00:02:26] Mike Zawadzki: So are you asking, like, not including AI today? [00:02:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It could be AI, but not not specific to a man. [00:02:35] Mike Zawadzki: Okay. So, in terms of photographic process, I mean, this year, I've learned a lot of things in terms of especially, and it's one of those like old cliche outages, like time is money and So I've tried to cut down the number of images that are shooting, which is hard because I also just switched about a year and a half ago to Sony mirrorless cameras and they take pictures really fast. [00:03:00] Mike Zawadzki: They focus really accurately, like in the live stream, we were just talking about. How the 51.2, like you can nail images at 1.2. So it's hard to not go a little bit crazy. And you know, this switched to Sony mirrorless has really re-invigorated my like passion. Certain types of motion shots and taking more risks because they're not really risks anymore or shooting like a crazy 30 frames, a second burst on a walking or running picture. [00:03:32] Mike Zawadzki: So I've really had to try to, and you know, some of my other photographers that worked for me have done the same, they've switched to mirrorless and S and I know and even some of the Facebook groups I'm in other photographers have been saying, like, it's really hard to not overshoot right now because the cameras are so good. [00:03:49] Mike Zawadzki: I've really tried to do that on the I guess the front end, the photography side of my job is to, okay. These tools we have now are great, but let's try to be still be efficient with them and not overdo it. And you know, I don't, I'm trying not to be hard on myself or anybody that's worked for me or anybody else out there. [00:04:09] Mike Zawadzki: I mean, it's just something that kind of happened to everybody naturally. So that was my first. Signed to me that, okay, I can shoot a little bit less and that does help, but I also needed help with the volume I was taking on. And then I am taking on still with my jobs. I need to be able to call down the images more efficiently. [00:04:33] Mike Zawadzki: I need to be able to edit the images more efficiently. So this whole year has been about. Efficiency in terms of my job, but then also kind of like we talked about on the live stream also work-life balance, being able to have the time to do those things. So yeah, that's a, it's kind of all ties together into the theme of this year with. [00:04:54] Mike Zawadzki: Time is money, but also time is valuable personal time. In fact, there's a old friend of mine who I've worked with over the years, he works now for TAVI and ShootProof his name's Dave Shane. And he also does like, one-on-one like, you know, cause a big thing for him is he kind of went through the same thing years ago, himself. [00:05:13] Mike Zawadzki: Working himself to the bone. And he's like, how do I spend time with my wife and my kid and still have a happy life. So I really, even though this has been the busiest year and a lot of people have kind of punted that kind of aspect of their life, like, all right, I'm just gonna like work like crazy this year and I'll figure out the rest of the future. [00:05:30] Mike Zawadzki: But with, you know, some of the things that I've gone through and my girlfriend's gone through medically and, you know, we're very great. For her health and everything now, but you know, some things happen in life where you do realize like, yes, my job is important, but there are things more important, believe it, or not than a job and being able to manage your time. [00:05:50] Mike Zawadzki: And balances is really important. So that's really the overall theme for this year for me. [00:05:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's great. Yeah. You know, historically I've always used a DSLR and had my DSLR set to. Continuous high, like I would pull down the shutter and it would go click, click, click, click, click, click, click. [00:06:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And I was using Nikon D D 800 D at 50, so that they were fast. Now, now that I use Nikon Z bodies, which are there. I had to switch it to single because it really is they're faster and an easier guy to control. And I agree with you, like being able to find ways like that, to spend more time with the family away from the away from the office, away from the. [00:06:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's so valuable in many, many, [00:06:37] Mike Zawadzki: many ways. And I have to say, even when I was with the da at 50, like the da 50 was my favorite DSLR before I switched to mirrorless, I even started to develop the methodology and style and approach that I use now. When I had the da 50 that's when I really did start to feel comfortable shooting wide open at like 1.4 with like the Nikon, the 1 0 5 1 0.4, which is even though I love Sony. [00:07:02] Mike Zawadzki: And and if any of my Sony peeps out there listening I'm fully a team Sony, but that is one lens I miss. And hopefully Sony comes out with some. And I think they might be similar to the 1 0 5 1 0.4. I mean the 85 and the 1 35 GM lenses I have are great, but I'm just a little side note, but yeah, I started that approach philosophy, doing things in the spirit of that with the da 50 myself a couple of years ago, because it probably was the best focusing DSLR. [00:07:30] Mike Zawadzki: I hadn't, it's kinda just evolved over the past two years into, you know, now I shoot with the Sony, a ones and a. You know, I originally I had the Sony it was the best focus in camera I ever had. I didn't think that his fast camera, yeah, very fast camera. And I didn't think that there was ever something that would be faster, but the Awan is even faster and it's hard, been hard for me to imagine. [00:07:54] Mike Zawadzki: So, and also too, I've really with the Awan being a 50 megapixel versus the 24 on the 8, 9, 2, I've really really tried to Be more careful about going into that first and really how many photos I'm taking and also to slowing down a little bit like that has helped me be more careful with things like composition and looking for distracting things in the background. [00:08:17] Mike Zawadzki: So it's been good to just slow down a little bit, especially over the past few months with my approach. [00:08:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. You've got a a bunch of photographers that work for you in your, in your wedding photography business. Do you have them all using the same cameras? Or they still mixed up. Wow. How does [00:08:36] Mike Zawadzki: that scenario? [00:08:37] Mike Zawadzki: That's a good question. Hey, if everybody could shoot with the AWOL, I would. And if I could afford to buy everybody the worst man, 81, I would be fantastic. Or even some kind of 70 camera. I mean, you know, my, my primary photographer, who's like my right hand, her name's Tiffany. She recently. Earlier this year, it's hard to remember. [00:08:59] Mike Zawadzki: It's all kind of blurred together, but she switched to Sony as well. I have another photographer working for me who is in the middle of doing that himself, actually a few. So yeah, I mean, a lot of us have switched to Sony, but some still shoot with like a Nikon Mary Lister, Canon mirrorless. And it's actually, it's fine because. [00:09:18] Mike Zawadzki: I don't particularly care what someone's using. I think for this upcoming year, I am going to make it a requirement for my team to use mirrorless cameras and not DSLRs, which might sound crazy, but there is just such a significant difference between, and I know, you know, I love Sony. Again, I'm team Sony, but Hey, everybody's making good cameras and lenses right now. [00:09:41] Mike Zawadzki: There's no doubt about it. So I'm not going to penalize someone working for me and be like, oh, you can't work for me because you're not using. The brand I used, but I would like them to start using mirrorless only this year, because no matter what brand it is, there is a significant difference in the Charlotte. [00:09:57] Mike Zawadzki: And the focus ability of the cameras. But [00:10:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, I was thinking, I was thinking more, just the color science aspect of it, so that when you get the F when you get the photos from each of the photographers, you know, those colors are going to be as accurate to each other as they possibly can. Kat into what you're going to be very different than Sony's or Nikons, or it's going to be very different than Sony. [00:10:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And it's that [00:10:19] Mike Zawadzki: one, let me just stop you there for a second. I've noticed actually the Nikon, I have no problem batching, or ImagenAI ING or whatever you want to call it, those files together. But the Canon, and this is not to say anything bad about Canon, but it's just that the if like, for example, if I took a candidate file from scratch and edited, I'm sure it would look great. [00:10:39] Mike Zawadzki: But when I use the particular profile and preset that I have set up for my cameras and put it on a new, especially with the older, it's funny because with the older Canon five D mark four, no problem works great. But and maybe a couple minor adjustments, but with the newer CR three files from like the EOS R R six R five, it looks like crap when I put my preset on it. [00:11:04] Mike Zawadzki: And again, I'm not saying that. Okay. Rafael is crap. It's just that the camera calibration and the exact color adjustments I've made to it looked not good. So I'm, I'm working on one of the things I'm going to be working on this off season is you know, trying to evangelize for Sony a bit more and get my team to switch. [00:11:23] Mike Zawadzki: But no, but that was just a joke, but in reality, I'm going to be working on a separate. Preset for, and I, and I do have them, but they're still just not quite there. I have like, you know, I have all my like funny preset names, like Emsi home brew neutral 2.0. I have made a Canon version of that, but it's not quite there. [00:11:43] Mike Zawadzki: So I would really like to do that. And I would you know, it's one of the things I'm considering doing with ImagenAI is making a separate profile for the cannon files, because again, for Nike. Nikon any F's and Sony files. No problem. I think they're very similar in terms of their colors, even if they're not exact they're similar enough for me, so that when I applied my presets and adjustments that I typically do, I don't really need to worry about it, but the cannon ones are so drastically different in the way. [00:12:14] Mike Zawadzki: Light room interprets the colors from the raw files that I am considering making a separate imagination AI profile for them, or at the very least uploading into fine tune, a bunch of Canon images edited with the new preset. So I have to think about that. Maybe talk to you guys a little bit about that too. [00:12:33] Mike Zawadzki: Sure. Sure, sure. Cool. [00:12:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What is one thing that you think. For the business that saves you time or money again, not ImagenAI related, but overall for their business. [00:12:46] Mike Zawadzki: Sure. So. Here's a great example. It came to my mind right away after I booked couples. And you know, over the next two years, we have hundreds of weddings on the books. [00:12:56] Mike Zawadzki: And I don't say that to brag. I mean, I am proud of it, but I say that because that's also hundreds of people with questions that could be the most popular one is, and I'm even getting it for 20, 23 or late 20, 22. Oh. You know, my makeup artist wants to know what time year. Well, yeah. My knee-jerk reaction to that, which I would never say to somebody because they're my clients and I liked them. [00:13:22] Mike Zawadzki: And I know that they're just trying to plan their, what am I nature connection is you're getting married like next year, like over a year from now. Like you don't think I have anything else to think about between now and then, but of course that wouldn't be very nice for me to say. And I actually don't mean that, but instead of having that. [00:13:36] Mike Zawadzki: Response or being like, oh, we'll worry about it later. It's like, how can I solve this problem? So I had my copywriter write an article for me on my website called what time should my photographers arrive at my wedding? And it lays out several different scenarios. Everything on location with the first look two or three locations with no first look. [00:13:57] Mike Zawadzki: And one more, I forget off the top of my head, like four locations, cause there's like a park or something in addition to a separate ceremony and reception and getting ready site. So it lays out for the reader, a few different scenarios, the suggested amount of time that each part of the day requires for photography and helps give. [00:14:16] Mike Zawadzki: Helps the client kind of make that decision themselves because as much as I love helping with weddings and stuff, I simply was just spending too much time with these emails and back and forth. So that's been a big time savers to have information. And of course I don't just dump the links on people and like, Hey as you can imagine, this is not the only time I've gotten this question. [00:14:36] Mike Zawadzki: Here's a really helpful article I wrote about this. I think this will help you, but if you have more questions specific to your wedding, I'd be more than happy to jump on a call, which segues into something else. That's really just been a game changer for me. And that's the app or software called Calendly. [00:14:58] Mike Zawadzki: And I was just like, if you, if again, going, just rewind a little bit. So I tell them if this is. Answering your question by all means let's jump on a call. Here's a link to schedule a call with me. And that has been so powerful for me to be able to just send someone a link. And I, and I try and do it always in a polite way. [00:15:22] Mike Zawadzki: Like, Hey, I'd love to talk to you. Set up a call with me here, you know, in terms of sales, psychology, and. About to do another interview with my calm. I mean, he is a mentor and someone I've hired in the past because a friend now is named Sam Jacobson and he runs a company called ID action consulting. [00:15:41] Mike Zawadzki: I've learned a lot of tips from him about efficiency and all sorts of things, but he, you know, one of his strategies has always been enter emails with a question. Because you're more likely to get a response, less likely to be a quote unquote, ghosted by somebody. That was great. I always used to love to ask the question, you know, at present I'm available Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, evenings. [00:16:06] Mike Zawadzki: When's good for you. When is good for you. It's a very powerful tool. If you are trying to get responses and keep conversations going with people, but I've gotten to the point in my career now. And I, and I know Sam would agree. I'll ask him later today when I speak with him. But you know, you get to a point where you don't need to be quite as You know, in, into the back and forth like that. [00:16:27] Mike Zawadzki: And I was just doing so many emails about when's good for you. When's good for you. And when's good for you. I was like, I can't do this anymore. And people have been telling me for actually a couple of years to try out Calendly or acuity or some kind of scheduling software that integrates with Google calendar. [00:16:42] Mike Zawadzki: And I. You know, over the past three years or so basically be keeping my entire life on Google calendar anyway, just to, you know, keep myself you know, by nature, I'm a intense person, a creative person a curious person, but I've not always been the most organized person. You know, in order to keep my life together and not, you know, the wheels constantly falling off. [00:17:05] Mike Zawadzki: I started just putting everything on Google calendar, doctor's appointments dates, haircuts personal time someone's birthday party, things like that. So I was already in the good habit of that for a few years now. So jumping into a software, like Calendly that integrates a scheduling software. [00:17:21] Mike Zawadzki: Something I'm already using like Google calendar was a no brainer. It makes me feel a little bit more professional to have a schedule or instead of just a back and forth type thing. I think the clients like being able to see there, you know, my availability without. Do more back and forth with me. [00:17:39] Mike Zawadzki: And it also, you know, it gives them the ability to set reminders via text, if they want or via email, you know, I can set up on the back end. You can't text bomb people with it, thankfully, because that would be super annoying if you signed up for something and didn't want texts, reminders, but there's an option for the end user, the client to use it. [00:17:56] Mike Zawadzki: But for me, I can pick email reminders. I can also limit the amount of things I'll do in a day. So for example, 'cause I just did the live stream with you. I had a client, a quick client call this morning and I'm doing this podcast. Now. I only have one other call today. I'm taking it six, six thirty, which honestly might even be a bit too much because I have other stuff to do in between, but you can write. [00:18:21] Mike Zawadzki: The amount of events of a certain type that you take within a day, you can limit the space or increase the space between them. So I'm not doing like a three o'clock call on a three 30 call, like I'm putting a hour and a half buffer between calls because I have to have I've closed in the laundry, in the, in the dryer right now. [00:18:40] Mike Zawadzki: I have to go get, so you have to, you have to be able to to add. It was one of those things where it's like, oh, well, I don't want to use an automated schedule because what if someone schedules something when I have to, you know, take my dog for a walk or I want to do my laundry or make something to eat. [00:18:56] Mike Zawadzki: But the great part about is the customization ability within Calendly. And I'm assuming other scheduling softwares too, to be able to kind of buffer out your appointments and have time to walk the dog and do your own. Things like that. Yeah. Yeah. [00:19:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I, I use a, I use a similar tool for myself. It's different one, but basically it works the same exact way as, as Calendly and it's they're definitely great for, you know, booking your clients, booking a podcast, guest, so many different things. [00:19:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And also going back to the blog post to. That is so good in so many ways, not only is it giving you the ability to have a pre-made reply, right? You're also sending buddy sending a potential client or a client back to your website, but also that blog post is going to start getting indexed by Google. [00:19:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And that's just going to help your site current come up more. And I just, I looked at. At the URL and the title, and you definitely it's optimized for New Jersey weddings. So it's, it's a it's, it's a, it's a very good idea on multiple fronts. So great job utilizing the blog for multiple business [00:20:12] Mike Zawadzki: aspects. [00:20:13] Mike Zawadzki: Really? Thanks. Yeah. There's there's no doubt about it. I'm not pulling any punches. I am definitely keywording that title? Hit where it needs to. And also too. Yeah. In addition to everything you just said, which is a great point about it being good for SEO and other, you know, it's also good for like social proof. [00:20:30] Mike Zawadzki: It's like, Hey, like this guy knows what he's talking about. No he's prepared. I have actually like 13 more of those posts that I have pre-written by my copywriting team also from ID action consulting, they do a really good job. But yeah, they I just haven't had time, unfortunately, you know, One of my biggest goals, this off season is to get a bunch of the more that content up in for better social proof for SEO and just to be more helpful to my clients. [00:20:57] Mike Zawadzki: But right now we do have articles on there. Another example is, you know, five ways or three ways. I forget the number, how to how to prepare for your engagement session on how to You know how to feel comfortable in front of the camera? Six, you know, even before people book, like one of the things I do is once I see the Calendly notification come up in my email, it's like, oh you know, Ashley has created an appointment with you. [00:21:21] Mike Zawadzki: I send a little canned response on email. That's. Thanks for setting up the appointment. I'm really looking forward to talking to you here. Two articles you might want to read before the call, like six things to ask your New Jersey budding photographer before meeting them, how to prepare for your first call with your photographer. [00:21:38] Mike Zawadzki: Like things like that. It really does. You know, I have no doubt about it that that adds to my credibility and my clients and potential clients comfort and no. [00:21:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's a very, it's a very smart way to utilize the blog. And I look forward to seeing all the rest of these, these, these pieces come out there. [00:22:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What is one thing that you do for editing? [00:22:06] Mike Zawadzki: Yeah, obviously ImagenAI has helped me a bunch. I mean, I'll give you a little backstory here. So again, everything I talked about before I realized, obviously I need a little bit of help. I need a hand outsourcing editing is nothing new in the photography industry. [00:22:20] Mike Zawadzki: It's very common. There are. Photographers who are uncomfortable with it with good reason. Like I said, in the livestream earlier, too, because you, that is your name's on it. People are going to see it's the representation of you in a visual form. It's how you sell it's, you know, the, trust me, there's a lot more that goes in the sales than just having pretty pictures and you know, there's photographers out there and you know, I'm not bashing or anything. [00:22:45] Mike Zawadzki: They're just, aren't great photographers, but are great sellers and book. A lot of work personally, I could just, I love the art of it too much. I couldn't do that, but it is possible to book a lot of. Not putting too much into the artistic side, unfortunately, but a little bit of a tangent, but I like to do both. [00:23:01] Mike Zawadzki: I like to be good at sales and I like to be delivering a great product. I enjoy the art of it. If I didn't, I would do something else, you know, I would I just didn't, I liked the art side of it, but so I realized I needed help. I have again, I mentioned Tiffany before. She's also, you know, an incredible Photoshop operator. [00:23:19] Mike Zawadzki: Yeah. You know, she's really good at Lightroom too. And we've sat down together and she's gone over my style and she has all my presets and we, you know, we talked about it hours and hours and hours over the past couple of years. So yeah, I trust Tiffany to do my editing and. I think there'll be sending her some work here and there still, but, you know, especially when something is going to require more of the hand either retouching or some subject or sky selecting type stuff I'm still going to be sending her some work, but because of how important she is to my company, in terms of being a photographer, I could not realistically expect her to. [00:23:59] Mike Zawadzki: She has three kids. She just has a household. She has just as many weddings as I did this year, over 60. She does engagement sessions for the couples that she's going to be the lead shooter for in the future. How can I expect her to. Do almost as much as I am and I don't have kids, but I mean, I have a dog it's not the same, but how am I going to expect her to do that? [00:24:23] Mike Zawadzki: And also edit. So I'm was, especially as the year got busier, wasn't able to give her as much and, you know, It was I just needed another solution. So I started using an editing company. They've done a good job overall. If I'm going to be paying that kind of money for editing, I might as well be like a hand out of there. [00:24:40] Mike Zawadzki: And also too, like I mentioned, on a live stream, there was some logistics issues that come up when you work with a bigger editing company. And again, there's nothing bad to say about them. They've been overall fantastic, but sometimes. It's hard to know if you're getting the same people working on it. [00:24:53] Mike Zawadzki: There's also like scheduling again, understandably on their hand. Like if they need to know when I'm going to be sending images in otherwise you know, it's, it's especially the good companies are gonna have a lot of people with demands. So it's tough. And it's like, what if I get sick or if I have something else in emergency that comes up and I can't meet that deadline. [00:25:12] Mike Zawadzki: So it was like, I really need a better solution for this. And originally I found after shoot the other software for AI, for calling and I was using that and saving a ton of time. And then I think I saw an Instagram or Facebook or some kind of advertisement. AI editing. And I looked at it and it was another company. [00:25:30] Mike Zawadzki: I don't even remember the name. And I looked at it and I was like, oh, this is cool, but I can only use their. Profiles. And I'm very particular about my editing style. And eventually I saw another ad and actually not the first company, I forget it was like start a magazine or, you know, one of my you know, peers or friends in the industry sent me, she was like, oh, I saw you're using my friend, Amy was like, you're using after shoot. [00:25:53] Mike Zawadzki: And you see this like other software for editing. And I was like, no. And then she sent it to me and I checked it out and I was like, oh, that's cool. It's not doing what I want because it's only the pre-program profiles, which I'm sure are nice. But when you're, you know, I'm 14 years into this, I have a very specific style. [00:26:10] Mike Zawadzki: So it was like I needed to to up the I, I wanted to maintain rather that style, but yeah, so I'm saying is that I wanted a, I, I love the idea of AI, anything actually, whether it comes to You know, helping me edit photos or helping me do anything, or I'm really interested in technology, but for something as specific as my photography style, I really wanted to be able to have more input on it. [00:26:38] Mike Zawadzki: And then I saw an ad for ImagenAI and I looked at the website and I read about it. And it was a little confused at first I'm like, how does it know when I upload, like before and afters or what do I do? And then I did a little research on how it worked and I gave it a try and I was like, wow, this is exactly what I wanted. [00:26:58] Mike Zawadzki: It lets me Set up a profile based on work I've already done. And then not only that, the, the real selling point for me was that it's able to learn from what I'm doing, because like I mentioned on a live stream to what I think looks good, changes over time, right? Like if you're a photographer for as long as I've been for 14 or 15 years, you're not going to be editing the same way you were even maybe three or four years ago. [00:27:24] Mike Zawadzki: So the ability to continuously give feedback. To the profile into the neural network that it runs on is great. So that's a, that was the selling point for me was the ability to start with your own profile and not a built in one. And there are built in ones for those who don't have enough images to start with, but the ability to start with your own and to fine tune it over time was just it was a really fantastic. [00:27:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Awesome. So what was one thing that you do that you do after the sessions after these weddings, after the engagement sessions that you do do increase business? [00:28:11] Mike Zawadzki: Well, you know, I do share the images with the clients pretty quickly after, you know, within, you know, three or four days. Sometimes the next day, if I, if I have the. [00:28:23] Mike Zawadzki: I'll share all of [00:28:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: them or sneak peaks [00:28:25] Mike Zawadzki: of previews, like, like, you know, and a decent amount too. I actually, after we get off the call here for the podcast, I have a few proposals to write for future jobs and I have some previews to edit from a wedding and from an engagement session. And that's helped because people get to enjoy it right away. [00:28:44] Mike Zawadzki: They share it right away. It builds like nice buzz, like, not just for the client. Of course it's mainly for them so they can enjoy it, but their friends and family get to see it. They share it on Instagram, they tag me and all that stuff. So it's just, that's helped a lot with being able to, you know, create, again, some buzz and interest in what I'm doing right away, like right after the job. [00:29:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. So can you share in outlined. Very basic overview of your workflow from lead to delivery. Like you don't have to get into the, into the nitty gritty, but just a basic outline of, of how, how it typically goes. [00:29:23] Mike Zawadzki: I mean, basically people just give me the money. I pushed the button and then that's it. [00:29:29] Mike Zawadzki: Right. [00:29:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You know, you don't [00:29:32] Mike Zawadzki: even have to be there. The camera does it for you. Yeah. And then now with the software, it just doesn't for me, I just push the button. No, so good question. That's a great question. I mean, I could really I'll try and keep it a briefer, but you know, I get probably three or four leads every day and I send it. [00:29:49] Mike Zawadzki: You know, the biggest question I was like, oh, can you send pricing? Well, if you do, if you do, I'll just tell this, you know, this is advice I got from Sam also, but it's pretty, just good general advice. If you send just like a price sheet or, or the worst is if you send a PDF because PDFs aren't mobile friendly. [00:30:06] Mike Zawadzki: You know, and I was making that mistake a few years ago to sure. You mean you'll book some work. If someone really just loves your style and thinks the price is good, you're going to book some, some work that way, but might've been booked like a decent amount, but there. You know, Many vendors that a wedding couple is reaching out to and you want to stand out. [00:30:24] Mike Zawadzki: I want to have a chance to talk to them, find out what's important to them. You know, create a custom proposal for them. And again, that's why I said I have to write some proposals. So first thing I do is, Hey you know, I'm available for your wedding day or we have one of our team photographers available for your wedding. [00:30:40] Mike Zawadzki: Here's some more information. About what it's like to work with us with like a landing page. I've set up for that. And here's the intro pricing page. It's an unlinked URL on my site that has intro pricing and also. You know, again, more of the process laid out about, you know, the next thing we're going to do is jump on a call together. [00:30:59] Mike Zawadzki: We're going to find out what's important to find out what you're concerned about. Did you want to do an engagement session? Do you want to, do you want a photo album or do you just want digital files? Do you also want to add on video coverage? So there's a lot that goes into it. It's not just like, you know, When I send that email either someone doesn't hear back from me, I assume maybe the intro prices were too high for them and that's fine. [00:31:23] Mike Zawadzki: Some people do write back very rarely, like, oh, like, oh, I saw that already. Like you just send me your prices, like your packages. And no, I don't. I mean, I know that might seem like not the most customer. Service friendly thing to do, but I say, I, you know, the nicer way to say it is I actually don't have any preset packages that I send out. [00:31:44] Mike Zawadzki: I create custom proposals for everybody because everybody's a little bit different. Some people want more hours or less hours, or some of the things I just mentioned to you as add on some people aren't sure about those things yet. So, you know, such you really missing out on an opportunity to do better in sales. [00:32:02] Mike Zawadzki: If you're just sending out. Price sheets, the people now you know, I've seen this polled in different groups for some people say, oh, well, if I asked for pricing and I don't get like a full price sheet, like I'm not going to hire them. Well, you know, good for you. You're not, you're not my client then. I mean, thankfully, and I'm grateful to be able to be a little bit strict about something like that, because I just, you know, it's not how I do business. [00:32:24] Mike Zawadzki: I mean, there's plenty of photographers out there who are spamming people with PDFs and getting ghosted and stuff. And I'm just not. You know, not into that. There are, you know, different people, different types of people with preferences, like the more like spreadsheet oriented, like people who like to do that and want to compare prices and stuff. [00:32:44] Mike Zawadzki: Again, it's not really much, typically more. Client I'm missing out on a couple jobs here, there I'm sure. But the overall net gain of sending out custom proposals and doing consultations with people over zoom or on the phone has really improved my business versus again, just sending a price sheet so that the next step is setting up that consultation. [00:33:05] Mike Zawadzki: I use Calendly. Like we talked about earlier to either set up a zoom or a phone call with them after the. The consultation, I'll write up a proposal for them that I'll send them. I try and send it when they get a chance to look at it. Like, I'm writing one right now after we get off this call for somebody who was away this weekend, even though we spoke on Friday, I didn't want to dump it in their inbox. [00:33:26] Mike Zawadzki: While they were away on a, on a trip with their fiance and have them buried. I actually TA I went out of my way to text her before I was like, Hey, I've got a couple of things to do, but I'm writing up your proposal now I'll, I'll email it and text it to you in a little bit, just again, to keep it, you know, a lot of this is sales psychology to keep it in the forefront of their mind to get the attention. [00:33:46] Mike Zawadzki: So I send it, you know, generally within a, a day day or a few days. And you know, if it's a very. Logistically if it's a more complex lead that requires a little bit more attention to planning and locations, I might ask them, for example, Hey, after you get a chance to look at the proposal, let's set up another call to go over it or any questions you might have you know, Don't do that so often, even though it is a recommended strategy, as much as I used to, again, just because the volume of doing, I don't have the time to jump on a second call to try and sell to every single couple. [00:34:20] Mike Zawadzki: But if a couple asked me, of course, I'm happy to jump on another call with them that happens every now and then. And then after they, we, you know, finalize the coverage. I will send them a contract and a payment portal, like all through my CRM, which is Taba and we'll book the the job and then, you know, plan the engagement session. [00:34:43] Mike Zawadzki: Send them more information about, again, some of those other blog posts, I was mentioning like how to repair fare for your engagement session, how to feel comfortable in front of the camera. And you know, there are points of contact. A lot of my clients feel very comfortable texting or emailing me. And I don't mind. [00:34:59] Mike Zawadzki: I know some people are like, oh, I would never want clients texting me. But when I'm super swamped, like this time of year, I'm finishing up edits taking on new this, this and that. I'd rather just have someone text me or use Calendly and like set up an appointment rather than email as one of the biggest time sucks for me as someone who's running a business. [00:35:19] Mike Zawadzki: High volume and busy. Sorry. I cannot sit there and go back and forth on email. I keep checking my email actually, when I was newer and really just trying to grab as many jobs as I could. And just really starting more from scratch. I would be like on my email, like a Hawk answering like instantly, but I've actually set up certain times of day. [00:35:41] Mike Zawadzki: Yeah. Only times for email. It could be months in the morning, once in the evening. Unfortunately, sometimes when I'm really busy, it's just once in the evening when I get a chance to it, because I don't want the distraction of the back and forth on email. But I [00:35:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: think, I don't know if. If windows machines have this capability, but on Macs and unlike iPhones, for example, iPads, you can actually use screen time to prohibit like a Gmail app or a mail app from even being used between certain times. [00:36:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So it's [00:36:11] Mike Zawadzki: cool stuff. Yeah, definitely. I haven't thought about that on my Mac yet. I use on my phone, like the focus, like do not disturb. But now that's interesting idea. I actually use a software as a plugin. You can use on, I think on any computer, I have a Mac as well. It's called rescue time and it kind of tracks what you're doing with your time. [00:36:32] Mike Zawadzki: And like, if you're wasting time and I've noticed this year, my productivity score is like through the roof versus previous years. But yes. After booking, setting up the engagement session, sending them previews for the engagement session, getting those edited, you know, if, if they reach out to me or I might send them an article, I find funny, or sometimes too, if it's honestly, I become pretty friendly with a lot of my clients. [00:36:53] Mike Zawadzki: So I might just check in with them, see how they're doing. But a few months before the wedding, two, three months before the wedding, I'll send out another timeline questionnaire for them to fill out. Maybe with an article maybe without and say, Hey, fill this. And then when you're done, you know, even if you don't know all the answers, do the best you can. [00:37:10] Mike Zawadzki: And then let's, here's a link to set up a followup call on that and we'll go over it so I can make a timeline for the wedding or you know, thankfully some more of my weddings have been having planners lately, or the planner will make the timeline to You know, we photograph the wedding and I send them the previews. [00:37:30] Mike Zawadzki: And then this is where the AI comes in is I now see, excuse me, sorry. After some people might run, like after shoot to call the job immediately. I like to do the previous first, because again, AI isn't perfect. I know. When I'm doing the previews, the job is still pretty fresh in my mind. I know the parts of the day where I'm going to be like, Hey, I remember this thing happened. [00:37:56] Mike Zawadzki: I definitely want to send them a preview of that. And I try and space out the previews from getting ready through the dancing, you know, reception. So I'll do that. And then. Once it's up next in queue, I will run after shoot and then I will clean up my after shoot call pretty quickly. And then I will run it through. [00:38:16] Mike Zawadzki: After I go back into Lightroom, I take that preview images that I've already sent them. And I set those as like a separate star and color rating. And then I don't, I take those away and I hide them from my film strip. And then I read the metadata for. The from the after shoot call back into Lightroom, I tidy. [00:38:39] Mike Zawadzki: And then I set my parameters, how I want for that. So I have edited images marked as a certain color, and then unedited images that I want edited as unrated, basically five star with no color and I can run them through, ImagenAI then, and then I wait and I wait to get them back and I will. Just like we did on the livestream. [00:39:02] Mike Zawadzki: I'll do like a, a quick once over through, and again, there's certain parts of the day, just that I can just scroll through without having to make any adjustments. Other parts of the day. I might batch like some settings onto, or I might just do I'm very fast with Lightroom. So I might just copy and paste. [00:39:23] Mike Zawadzki: Sorry. I might just copy and paste from image to image, to. And then I upload their gallery to pixie said, I'll send them a little, thank you. Note in an email, share the gallery link. If they have ordered an album or have expressed interest in ordering albums, I'll explain that process to them, ask them if they want to jump on it, like a followup call to talk about how to pick out their album images. [00:39:47] Mike Zawadzki: But yeah, that's that's pretty much a brief, what [00:39:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: software do you use to to lay out your albums? Funding. Nice. I'm a big fan of fundees. Yeah, [00:39:58] Mike Zawadzki: it's just, it's fantastic. I mean, there's some other good ones out there, but funding is just a very straightforward it's like, you know, just the UI and the tools and under very were always very intuitive to me. [00:40:10] Mike Zawadzki: And I was able to pick that up years ago and start using it without really having to. To, you know, read too much about it or, you know, watch YouTube videos about it or anything like that. It's just very straightforward from the start and they've, they seem to be adding more and more features over time. [00:40:26] Mike Zawadzki: And yeah, I'm a big fan of a fan of their software. In [00:40:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: fact, I could be wrong. So I might be biting my by, you know, eating my own words here, but I think they were the first in the album design space many, many years ago. Obviously now there's a lot more out there, but I think they were the first. So, okay, so it's a, it's a fantastic workflow from start to finish. [00:40:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: There's a lot, there's a lot that goes on, obviously especially in the, in the wedding business. And you've got, you know, everything worked out in your own methods. You've built over the past. You said 14 years or so. So it's a great workflow. I wonder now, You've already started incorporating AI into your workflow. [00:41:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Already you've got AI in your camera, right? You've got AI for your calling AI for your editing. What does the future of AI and photography look like to you? [00:41:20] Mike Zawadzki: I think and actually one of my friends, Antonio who works for me as the second shooter, he's also a writer. A website called the verge, like a tech website and him and I have these conversations all the time. [00:41:33] Mike Zawadzki: Like, since we were going all the way, we met each other in like 2007 at college. And ever since then, we've kind of been a little nerdy and stuff and I don't mind, I'm proud of it. I love the conversations him and I have, but yeah, we talk all the time about things like you just asked. And I think the next step for photography is going to be Having some of the features that are, and I've seen any certain comments, sections and articles and stuff, which can pretty, pretty toxic places. [00:42:02] Mike Zawadzki: Anyways, there's been some resistance against us or like, oh, like I wouldn't buy a $6,000 camera that was doing stuff on my iPhone knows I want my camera. It would be my camera. But I think the next step is some of the computational photography type things that iPhone smartphones do like, you know, One thing I've heard complaints about, it's kind of become a problem is I have a friend who's a photographer in Florida and she actually had a client who was complaining, I think UN unrightfully. [00:42:31] Mike Zawadzki: And they were wrong actually. But like, oh, well my maid of honor was there and she was taking pictures on her phone at the beach. And like, her sky has more color in it. And the pictures on the phone were just darker. I mean, I saw them, but the point is. And that the computational photography algorithms in I-phones that. [00:42:50] Mike Zawadzki: Several pictures quickly as HDR and stack them and have it look natural, like, having detail on the sky on a backlit scenario, like scene or, you know, foreground detail in a situation like that. It's just you know, I think skinny. Smoothing some of the AI things that we're seeing in Photoshop and Lightroom now, like subject selection, Skye selection neural filters, like you were talking about earlier with the colorizing old, black and white photos, things like that. [00:43:20] Mike Zawadzki: Yeah. I think the computational aspect of photography, it's going to be interesting to see. Companies like Sony we'll start implementing more of that and wonder what the processing power might need to be for the cameras to be able to do things like that. But I think they'll have to because the iPhone, again, yes, it's limited by having a smaller sensor and of course, lens selection, but honestly, for anything that's not a major event, like I'm bringing my iPhone, like if I want to, I mean, I probably, I, I, you know, In general, I'll just use my iPhone for things out and about, but cause the picture quality is very good, but I did bring my a one and the 1 35, 1 0.8 to the dog park the other day. [00:44:01] Mike Zawadzki: So I'm still kind of that guy with the camera sometimes. But you know, I think computational photography in AI, in cameras is going to be one of the next steps, mean. There's some things that you mentioned before, like face detection and cameras. You know, from what I understand, some of the cameras actually can learn, like, for example, on my Sony cameras, I can take a picture of a couple at the beginning of their wedding and program that into the camera to use those faces as the priority when nice. [00:44:30] Mike Zawadzki: Yeah. I mean, that's so things like that, making things like that more, most people that shoot Sony probably don't. But it is a feature. But then making things like that mainstream and, you know, in order to keep justifying the cost for some of these cameras, they are going to have to be a bit more advanced in that nature or, you know, any kind of exposure, blending or stacking as part of the future on the editing side, I think, you know, Everything we've talked about in terms of some of the standalone softwares, like ImagenAI and after shoot, but also, you know, Adobe, I think what they implemented in the Lightroom lately with the subject masking and sky masking was, is great. [00:45:11] Mike Zawadzki: It works fantastically it's perfect, but I think it was long overdue. I mean, Lightroom had really suffered from that for quite a while. I mean, I think still some of the retouching. I think the next big thing to be addressed in light room is going to be a cloning and healing because it's just not very good right now. [00:45:25] Mike Zawadzki: I mean, I, you know, we can all find ways. I think even during the live to mind, I did clone out like a tree branch or something quickly, but [00:45:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it's still, we'll definitely use them some content aware features in Lightroom. Yeah. [00:45:37] Mike Zawadzki: That's [00:45:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: the future for, yeah. As you were talking about this, I'm thinking like, you know, so after shoot, for example, has the ability to do that. [00:45:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: As do all the other AI calling features or softwares out there, but they have the ability to detect when there's, what they call duplicate images that are, you know, within seconds of each other, that look very similar. There's no reason why cameras can't do that. It'll automatically pick the best. One of the, you know, These ma these companies building that software into a firmer update. [00:46:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But that would be cool. A cool, cool use of AI in camera, if that came to be to save you from doing that afterwards. So, I have one final question for you and you've touched on a lot of this during this conversation, but and you touched a lot on a lot of this actually in the live stream, which we're going to link to in the show notes as well. [00:46:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But for the, for anybody who's listening to the podcast right now, how has ImagenAI impacted your life? Not just your workflow, but impacted your life. [00:46:40] Mike Zawadzki: Yeah. And I think you know, we've definitely talked about this, a bunch between you and I, and, and across the different conversations we've had, but yeah, I mean, it's just being able to. [00:46:50] Mike Zawadzki: Send something out and then do something at the same time is invaluable to me. I can send a job to be edited. I mean, sometimes I even wish I had two computers running at the same time. I'm not sure that might mess it up or something, but yeah, I mean, just getting time back is, like I said, when we first started this conversation time is so valuable being able to have that time back for. [00:47:13] Mike Zawadzki: Again, for work tasks or for, you know, I don't feel guilty about spending time with my girlfriend or my family or my friends and knowing that the work's being done for me while I wait. And when I come back, I'll just spend like an hour or so, just, you know, click, click, click here and there, touch it out, make it look good. [00:47:31] Mike Zawadzki: And then that again, that I can send it back to have my profile be improved. Yeah. I'm really excited because what's, what's crazy about this is is that both after shoot, ImagenAI and some other softwares out there have gotten so much attention recently and people have varying you know, problems, complaints, praises, this and that. [00:47:50] Mike Zawadzki: But the exciting part to me is that these companies are. You know, like, I don't know exactly how long they've been around, but it's not been a long time. And now that we're really just in the very early stages of this, I imagine over the next year, two years, five years, that the level of sophistication in you know, my profile that I'm working on now, what is it going to look like in a few years when it has. [00:48:16] Mike Zawadzki: Hundreds of thousands of images and it, I mean, you know, what it's going to be able to do. I mean, there's just rarely at the very basic stages of this, and I'm already seeing the return in terms of time. And my biggest advice to anybody would be is that yes, if it's not working perfectly for you, whether it's after shoot, ImagenAI, any AI and perhaps. [00:48:38] Mike Zawadzki: You were hoping. And I don't say this is a criticism because it's, it's just, you know, a lot of people reached that point that I reached earlier this year when I was like, I need help. I need to do something to make this work better while also not, you know, spending so much money on calling and editing from an outside source that I'm not making money. [00:48:57] Mike Zawadzki: So. And again, some people reach that point rather more recently during like, let's say late October, early November, when the pressure on them was already so high to get things done that unfortunately, I mean, I think if you started working on a profile, keep organic, keep going, keep putting in the time to fine tune it. [00:49:16] Mike Zawadzki: But some people jumped into this. At a time when it would have been more beneficial for them to have started months ago and already had. And I'm very grateful that I did, but if you are struggling with it right now, or you're thinking it's not working exactly how you want, don't give up because it's, it's so much of this is based on your feedback to the neural network for your profile that you need to keep using it for in order for it to work. [00:49:44] Mike Zawadzki: And that in time it will keep improving again, like during the. I think it was during the live stream. We use the baby learning what a dog is learning a dog's name, starting to call every single dog, that original dog's name, and then eventually learning different types dogs have different names, different owners, this and that. [00:50:03] Mike Zawadzki: So yeah, it's like teaching a baby, those kinds of things and, and you have to You have to look at it that way, like from starting from scratch? No. I mean, even now with, with all the images that I've run through after shooting, ImagenAI, I still have to make changes here and there, but I'm saving a ton of time because I'm not starting from scratch. [00:50:19] Mike Zawadzki: And I am I know that I'm teaching the AI along the way, just like how I would teach an editor, just like I would teach You know, somebody to work on my pictures regardless. So that would be my biggest advice is this is not a one click solution. I wish it was, but that would be, you know, it's, it's a tool to save you time and you have to stick with it. [00:50:41] Mike Zawadzki: And then I think if people really stick with it, The slower months that, and really keep investing into fine tuning and working on their profile that next year it'll work even better for them. So for anybody that jumped in, when they started the field, how, like I felt earlier this year, you know, they're like, oh crap. [00:51:00] Mike Zawadzki: I have like 15 weddings to edit 10 family sessions, like as many engagement sessions. Like, how am I going to do it all? I have empathy for you, but please understand that the AI solve. It doesn't work like right out of the box, like how a human being, what you need to train it and spend the time with it. [00:51:20] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And I mean, the, the goal is. After a while of you teaching a profile and then sending fine tunes to further teacher profile. The goal is that in the future a year from now two years from now, you don't have to do anything afterwards that it is smart enough that [00:51:36] Mike Zawadzki: I think that would be wonderful. I mean, the biggest thing too is like, someone's like, oh, well it's not doing my a even during the livestream, I mentioned like these like super like weird blue hour dusk shots or night shots, or for if it's not doing those consistently. [00:51:51] Mike Zawadzki: Edit more of those photos, even if they're from older jobs and upload them to your fine tune, if you, the way the AI works, as far as I understand is through like intense repetition, it really just like a baby. Again, going back to that analogy or example that needs to be told over and over in order for it to be. [00:52:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Mike, thank you so much for joining me on on, on our new podcast workflows. If you can share for all the listeners and the viewers the best place for everybody to learn more about UC or wedding work and. [00:52:25] Mike Zawadzki: Sure you can go to my website, Mike sawatzky.com or on Instagram, Mike's Watsky photography. [00:52:32] Mike Zawadzki: And I'm also very active in the ImagenAI and after shoot groups too. Cause I'm very interested in the technology and I want to, I want to try and help people who are having problems with it and who it's not working on. They hope for. And I want to help them set really realistic expectations and get through the speeding. [00:52:51] Mike Zawadzki: Thank you so much. [00:52:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: We'll [00:52:53] Mike Zawadzki: talk soon. Thank you. Appreciate it. [00:52:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Thank you, Mike, for that awesome conversation about your photography workflows and thank you, the listeners for tuning in to this episode, you're invited to be part of the bigger conversation. Join the imagination community today, by going to Imagen-AI.com/community. [00:53:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to pod. You've been listening to workflows presented by ImagenAI to see the show notes and everything referenced in this episode, please go to imagen-ai.com/podcast.