Workflows with Will Cadena

[00:00:00] Will Cadena: Yeah, the sexy, elegant puffs though. You know, you know, [00:00:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: my mine's got jet lag, mine's called a almost four year old. I won't sleep well through the night or close to the podcast about saving you time and money in your photography business. As a photographer and content creator who struggles with dyslexia, colorblindness introversion, and anxiety stemming from years of being bullied. [00:00:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: As a child workflows have been my rock. I have workflows for every aspect of my life, and that's why I'm so happy to bring you workflows a podcast presented by Imagen as a company dedicated to saving you time and money in your photography business. It makes sense to enhance and expand the conversation to all things. [00:00:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Tune in and subscribe to hear stories, strategies, and tools that could be your rock. Hear from people just like you put the camera down for little connect the headphones and get to work with workflows. Get in on the conversation by joining the Imagen community today. Imagen the possibilities. Well, Kadena is a photographer who combines a modern edgy look with traditional photography. [00:01:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: His experience has given him the knowledge of traditional photography and the skills to know when and how to break those traditional rules and deliver a whole new look to his images without retouching. He has been a member of the PPA and WPPI for many years and has been photographing clothing campaigns, high profile events, and much more for over a decade in the USA and worldwide as well, continues to grow as a photographer. [00:01:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: He's also growing as an educator and an influential part of the photography. He was once B&H featured photographers, he says paying it forward is as important of a role for more seasoned photographers. He often talks about how he continues to attend workshops, because there is always something to learn for this reason. [00:02:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: He truly enjoys and values his opportunities to speak for some amazing companies in amazing places. Sometimes virtually his inspiration comes from all around him. As he loves to travel dance, learn many styles of hand-to-hand combat, including Sistema and Krav Maga and seek out new adventures all the time. [00:02:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Without further ado. Here's my conversation with my new friend who I've gotten to know over the past few weeks. I'm very grateful for will Kadina [00:02:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Hey, will. What's going on? [00:02:41] Will Cadena: I am doing great, man. Like, [00:02:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I didn't even ask that [00:02:45] Will Cadena: question yet. You only asked me like four times, but yes, I'm doing exactly what I said about 10 seconds ago. I am doing great. [00:02:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh boy. So, we are recording this, the end of may and this episode is likely going out either July or August. So we've got some time just so you know, that there's going to be a nice gap from between when this actually is recorded and when it actually. yeah. so we, we are publishing one every month for the time being, and making them really juicy, educational episodes. [00:03:20] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So everybody's going to walk away with some, some good, some good nuggets of, of a juice for their brain, and you have lots of good nuggets of juice to share. So I'm very excited about this conversation lives. [00:03:33] Will Cadena: These are lies. I was just talking about who paid you. It was, might've been that drunk at night. [00:03:43] Will Cadena: Give me on your interview. [00:03:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So my first question for you is what is one thing you do for the photographic process in the camera behind the camera that has saved you time? all right. Let's, let's re rephrase that. on-site or like in post [00:04:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: onsite in camera, like, you know, you're, you're, you're behind the camera, you're setting up the lights, whatever it is onsite that saves you time. most importantly, just making sure your gear is 180% ready to go 110% making sure your gear is tested, making sure whatever your exposure are you going to be photographed is, is 110. so before we even bring in any clients at all, I'll either have one of my assistants or I'll set something up there in front of my camera and whatever angle. Wherever my lighting is, and I'll take a one or two test shots. The first touch that I will do, I'll make sure I have it. The second one will be like the final. for me, it's important to help us to have a light meter depending on what kind of job criteria I'm doing. So obviously for a wedding is a little bit different because it's very high, very fast paced and we really don't have time to really meet her things. but when it comes to commercial jobs, assignments in that way, definitely we like meter everything. [00:04:57] Will Cadena: We make sure it's 110. Then from there, we also take a touch out with one of our assistants. And also we ask them, you know, do a little bit more of the homework and who we are photographing because also skin tones play a really big part in that. So whatever exposure you recently got, my slightly change on the skin tone on the person, your photographic, and, and also, you know, depending on what they wearing and the makeup. [00:05:18] Will Cadena: So that plays a lot of different elements. But going back to your question, making sure your exposure and your gear is 110, because once you have everything. Now you can focus all your energy on your subject that you're photographing and really tailor certain things to the criteria that they originally hired you for, or you want to, you know, capture for yourself for your portfolio. [00:05:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. I, I can't tell how many times. that I've made that stupid mistake of like, not reformatting the cars before session, then like I'm in front of the client and then have to reformat the cards. And it's like, you know, it takes, it takes 10 seconds to do, but at the same time, it's like, I don't want to think about this right now. [00:05:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So [00:05:58] Will Cadena: yeah. So the, yeah, the night before, yeah. Do it like it, it takes literally two to five minutes to do all that double check, like set up like a checklist. I have a checklist. you don't have to get anything crazy, you know, a piece of paper and a pen, or if you're a little bit techie, you know, get like a, Google was a Google forms or Google sheets and just do a little checklist that would save you so much time with stress. [00:06:19] Will Cadena: Because as we all know, sometimes the hardest part of getting to the job is getting to the job, you know, depending on traffic and, you know, things always happen there hasn't been one job that I've been to that it's like, perfect. So, You know, so just taking that stress and taking that peace of mind out of your, your head will save so much time and BS. [00:06:39] Will Cadena: So, yeah, so that's a piece of a tip. It's a, it's a big nugget. And I, that's something that I learned from other commercial photographers that I used to, you know, study on there. So seeing how they work as a whole unit and, and every team member has a certain job criteria. So that played over a big part because as we all know, we're artists and we like to just do everything realistic, you can't do everything. [00:07:01] Will Cadena: So if you want to see your business grow dramatically, or if you want to focus on different aspects of, I guess building that sec sector, you need to delegate the responsibility. So that's, for me, it's really important for my team members to do certain things in order for me to execute or exceed my client's expectations. [00:07:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. So then moving on to the business side of it, What is one thing you do for the business that saves you either time or money? [00:07:31] Will Cadena: The business part, I really started falling more in love with them, maybe in the last six to maybe seven years. I believe it or not. I feel like these days, I, if I had to like put it in some kind of percentile during the week, I'm probably photographing maybe 20 to 25% of the week and the rest is old business. so for me, it's really staying in contact with the clients, really listening to them, taking in what they're saying, but also most importantly, guiding them to, to, and guiding them to where they want to be. Because realistically, as we all know, majority of clients, they want this elaborate, you know, assign me, it could be let's, let's use a, let's use a wedding client for an example, because I'm sure many are they photograph, weddings, you know, client wants these cool hero shots and they want to go to let's say, for example, they want to go, I don't know. [00:08:19] Will Cadena: They want to go to Paris for one day and they want to come back to New York to do the other part of the wedding. That's not a realistic goal. That's not realistic. It's not, ideally is not. It's not, it's not, it's not a realistic timeline during the day. So this is where you have to bring them down to reality and guide them and say, Hey, we cannot do that. [00:08:37] Will Cadena: What we could do, there's a little place in the city that kind of looks like Paris. We could go there and photograph you guys. So, but what I recommend we could do something maybe a few weeks after the wedding or a few weeks before the wedding, we could go to Paris, spend two or three days there, enjoying some wine, having some amazing food. [00:08:54] Will Cadena: And on top of that, your guests are going to be blown away on some of these cool shots that we didn't pass. So it was kind of like getting them excited, so fulfilling their vision to a certain degree, but also letting them know like, There's other opportunities that could still photograph you down the line, not just as a winning client, but also as maybe a forever session, kind of like an engagement shoe, but it's a post,shoot for themselves. [00:09:16] Will Cadena: And they could do something like that every year, whether it's locally around their neighborhood or on a destination location. So we actually do that a lot. so our, our wedding clients really become our family clients and which leads into medical field shoots, corporate shoes, you know, a commercial job. [00:09:31] Will Cadena: So everything leads into something. So for me, that that's a key factor. So [00:09:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: expectations, expectation really is it [00:09:41] Will Cadena: is. Yeah, it is beyond just like being in a relationship. Let's put it this way. Let's be, let's bring it back. It's being in a relationship. Right? So that's how you have to look at it, you know, in a, in, in a mutual, you know, spouse, partnership, girlfriend, boyfriend, transgender, whatever it is in the end of the day, it's making sure you guys are both on the same page. [00:10:00] Will Cadena: And I understand there's a contract is signed and I'm a little bit more old school, meaning I'm the kind of person I'll shake your hand and whatever I said, I'm going to do, I'm going to do, regardless of what it says on the contract, and if you're nicer or if you're down to earth and you recommend them recommend a business, I'm going to send you, I'm going to do even more for you. so yeah, exceeding those expectations plays a very big part for me. So, but, yeah, exactly. Ex you know, exceeding expectations. So. Awesome. so then let's move on to the editing part of the, of the process. What is one thing you do for editing that has saved. [00:10:34] Will Cadena: Oh, my God, S I mean, so many different things, obviously onsite, making sure that there's 110% making sure what you shoot it's on the money. [00:10:42] Will Cadena: We have technology these days that our cameras can actually pretty much see exactly where you're shooting. And when I say pretty much, see, even though you're looking at a proxy or like a small JPEG file on your LOC, the Euchre, but you already know if it looks great on your screen is definitely like even better when you download that photograph. [00:11:00] Will Cadena: So that's one, two is once we download everything, we import everything into Lightroom, which is, one of our workflows. And from there we take advantage of amazing. W what's it called this amazing software that we all love and we cherish and we, and we love to death and we're happy to subscribe to it every year. [00:11:18] Will Cadena: What's it called? What's it called? [00:11:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Pretty sure it's called Imagen. [00:11:25] Will Cadena: It's called. Imagen. So imagine, imagine you downloading everything and imagine your stuff is getting edited, you know, within a matter of what it could be minutes and it could probably be like, yeah, which is insane. So imagine that. So for me, Imagen has played a really big part in our work. it's kind of hard for us to like go back to, you know, doing it on our own. It's like a no brainer. So especially when you have a client that needs something ASAP, we all have those clients. I need something like yesterday. So yeah, we definitely embraced the crap out of that. So I'm, I love to say crap or not. [00:12:00] Will Cadena: Sure. Yeah. But what is your workflow? I'm curious to know your workflow. [00:12:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I use it. Oh yeah. I mean I'm so my, my, my own, photography shifted during the pandemic shifted from families and headshots and cake smash sessions for, for one-year-olds to basically proposal sessions and family sessions. majority are proposals. [00:12:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And so my workflow and my photography is, is a part-time side business, you know, because I have my full-time job. So, so I don't have a big elaborate workflow, like a lot of. Professionals do, because I don't need it anymore, but, you know, editing wise, I mean, I'm running everything through imagine as well and, and doing whatever final adjustments need to be made for the client, but otherwise it's, it's a pretty straightforward, fast thing for me. but this isn't about me. This is about you. [00:12:57] Will Cadena: Well, I'm curious to know about you, man. I mean, this is conversation is that, you know, we can do a podcast and listen to all these photographers talk, but you know, it's one thing it's cool because we get to listen to what you're doing and you see, and you speak to other photographers. [00:13:09] Will Cadena: Maybe you pick like nuggets from them, then you can apply those to your workflow. Right. So, yeah, I'm asking you a question you're important as well. So they're okay. Embracing and raising. [00:13:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. it's you know, for me, it's very straightforward. I try to, I want to get as much done in camera, just like you as I possibly can. [00:13:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, The typically whenever I have an editing issue, for example, it's when my, wonderful go doc strobe doesn't fire correctly, or when it's supposed to, you know, I love, I, I, I love, I have a love, hate relationship with my GOLDOC strobes. I love them because they're affordable, and can pack a punch, but I don't like them because they misfire a lot. [00:13:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, [00:13:48] Will Cadena: so it's a balance. [00:13:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. There's, there's definitely a balance there, but, but it is interesting that ImagenAI the software actually edits misfires and they look exactly like what's for the stroke fired. yeah, I mean, except for like, You know, rim light or, or fill light or whatever, but, but exposure wise, it matches it up for pretty darn good. [00:14:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, no. do we have, do you guys have any behind the scenes shots of that? Like the video you can make like a 32nd clip, what happens? Cause that'd be interesting to see, you know [00:14:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. Demo did on a demo did on a webinar last night, actually, to a group of Australian photographers and the reaction was pretty much what you would expect. [00:14:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Like how's that possible, but it, it, it doesn't, that's [00:14:38] Will Cadena: interesting. Yeah. Well, we haven't, yeah, we haven't had that issue. yeah, that's crazy. That's scary. I'm I'm interested in seeing that. That's good to know. I mean, you're also using. [00:14:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Consistent. [00:14:52] Will Cadena: Yes. We're using lights are very consistent and very powerful lights. So yeah. Yeah. For me at the end of the day, I just like anything else, man, when you get to a certain part of it doesn't matter your career or your life in general, you just don't want to deal with the BS and like that. You know, I use several different systems for certain kind of job criteria is, is no different from wherein, you know, you, you're not gonna wear a hiking boots to a gala, or you're not gonna wear a dress shoes to go hiking, everything. [00:15:24] Will Cadena: There's a tool for everything. And that's one of the beauty parts of Bob Minnie in this industry. There's so many amazing tools to use. So, you know, it's, I feel like we're in the industry. Like you, just because they're using this, you have to use it, you know, it's find out what works for you and, and apply. [00:15:40] Will Cadena: If there's, if it's going to hinder what you do in order to exceed your client's expectations for them to get some, for them to pay you your rate, and also leading to referrals, you know, make that investment, you know, it's not going to hurt you much, or if you really think about it, isn't it actually benefit you. [00:15:55] Will Cadena: Long-term so that's a key factor, but yeah, hopefully it works out for you with the what's your system. [00:16:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's been good. I, you know, I do. I don't normally I don't normally, fire my stroke too fast. I guess sometimes it's just, it doesn't want to go. [00:16:10] Will Cadena: So I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you show him like, man, like, oh, sports photographer or if someone's walking through [00:16:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Craig. [00:16:17] Will Cadena: Yeah. Yeah. I don't, you know, but that's like another thing. Why would you want to have so many photographs of the same exact pose or the same as I, you know, location that again, like just like anything else when it comes to a time and people realize, oh, you know, I don't have to really shoot that much because I already know they're not going to buy or I'm going to spend a lot of time in post-production. [00:16:37] Will Cadena: But, yeah. So yeah, that's something that. So what's the next question. Come on. Yeah, yeah. [00:16:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. All right. So, [00:16:43] Will Cadena: I'm fast. I'm like, and I have no energy drinks and no coffee yet. I need some coffee. [00:16:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's almost one. Your, are you back home? So it's, you're in my time right now, right? [00:16:55] Will Cadena: I am, I am. Yeah. Now I'm in the I'm in the times I was, I was an LA yeah, it's been going like crazy nonstop, but yeah. [00:17:03] Will Cadena: Good thing. This is a podcast. Cause I got these bags. I've got cute bags like this guy over here, but you know, I got to cover them up. [00:17:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. So, what is on that note? what is one thing that you do after a session has completed the sessions done? What is one thing that you do after the session that has increased. [00:17:31] Will Cadena: One thing has done the increased [00:17:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: business. people talk about referrals. Some people talk about upsells. [00:17:39] Will Cadena: So, yeah. I mean, you know, what makes it, and I mean, it's a good question because I, for what I do personally in my company, and it's not just myself, I have multiple team members that work for us. [00:17:51] Will Cadena: We do so many different genres, weddings, corporate commercial work, family portraits, maternity session. So obviously there's a workflow for, for everything. And this is no different from the workflow that we have with you guys. you know, I can't just use one, profile for, for example, you know, bodybuilding profile to use for a wedding. [00:18:12] Will Cadena: It just doesn't make sense. Yeah. Or a wedding used for the fitness stuff that we do. It's, you know, so create a different profiles, play a very big factor in it. I honestly look for, you know, if I wanted to go do a family portrait, the FA you know, right then and there we'll photograph it where we're, tethering. [00:18:29] Will Cadena: I really recently got it to tethering last few years ago. It's, it's been a game changer for our business is no different from headshots. Once you tether everything's already in the computer, I have have a tech person onsite. They'll filtering the images that we feel that is not the best, because we won't always want to have the clients look at the images that, that they love. [00:18:50] Will Cadena: And from there, we run, a quick process through, you know, Through the Imagen, software. I keep I'll come on and say ImagenAI AI, which was not ImagenAI anymore. Right. So, yeah, [00:19:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: but by the time this episode airs, we will just be called Imagen. [00:19:05] Will Cadena: Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to keep saying Imagener all right. so, so I imagine quickly it will process those images real quick. So when we're done with that session, we usually take a, maybe a 30 minute to 40 minute break in between that timeframe. sometimes it's an hour and we like to schedule. The sessions, there's like a little lunch break or maybe like a little dinner break, we order food, food. [00:19:24] Will Cadena: And so when the food comes out, everyone could relax. They could talk about, you know, the session can talk about, you know, ourselves, you know, just get to build that rapport with them even more, even though that rapport is already built way before they shoot. So when we go into the session, they're really comfortable once we're done. [00:19:41] Will Cadena: And that's when we set up the view, the view and an ordering session. And from there, that's where we were making. They make the selections for their, for their wall art pieces and it kind of prints that they want to give to anyone. and you know, we found out, well there's information like, you know, whose birthdays are coming up, his mom, his birthday, or, then from there we also design an album for them right then and there onsite. [00:19:59] Will Cadena: So it gets them really excited once we're done with that. they actually, literally, all they have to do is take out the credit card and make sure. So, and they also get all the pricing by the time they buck, they get all the pricing enhanced, so they already know what they're going to be expected to pay. [00:20:16] Will Cadena: So there's no misunderstanding and you know, and also, you know, you let them know what's, what's the process. I'm sure a lot of people, which I see when I teach is that the biggest issue is they have clients that don't want to pay or they become a little bit. A little bit more reserved and what they want to spend off there. [00:20:32] Will Cadena: And the reason why is because you're not mentally preparing them for it. And also, you know, and everyone has a certain budget and that's what we have to S you know, we have to be a it's okay. It's okay for them not to spend or for you not to make your average. So majority of my clients are, they usually know they're going to be spending X amount of money more, and I'm constantly during the whole process. [00:20:53] Will Cadena: So for example, if I have a client that hired us to do a family session in Naples, which let's say next month, I'm going, they already know beforehand that they're going to be upgrading no matter what they're going to. And I'm, I'm already visualizing where that possible wall, our piece will go in their home. [00:21:09] Will Cadena: So I'm also purposely photograph in that, putting that in their heads. So when I photograph her thing, I'm going to redesign everything to showcase that on their wall. So now it's going to be really hard for. Every time they pass that area around their home. They're going to visualize that piece of Walmart. [00:21:24] Will Cadena: So when it comes to the session, it's pretty much nine out of 10 times, they're going to buy it. so yeah, I mean, that's really more of, you know, making those sales, Berlin, those relationships, and there's no BS. There's never like, oh, well, will you never told me that? Well, will you, you know, you never sent me that. [00:21:41] Will Cadena: I never saw that in the fine print. No, we sent this several, several times to you. And we also, you know, every time we set up a consultation, we'd go over the, just snippets of everything. So we're all on the same page. [00:21:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So it's coaching. Yeah. I think that comes back to setting the expectations. Like what you talked about earlier, it goes back to, you know, under selling over delivering, and, and even more so making your client feel like family, you're making them feel comfortable and included and, and careful. [00:22:13] Will Cadena: Correct. And like, going back to what you just said, it's, it's building the trust. Think about it. If you build that trust, it's going to be so much easier to sell Ella. You gotta be genuine about it. Don't be a jerk about it. I, I see you. So I do some mentorship and sometimes I sit in some consultations with them and I'm like, why would you say that? [00:22:34] Will Cadena: Why would you do that? Like, because they kind of went by either my format or by someone else's format. And it's okay to put some pieces, but don't try to emulate someone else that you're not. So for me, I have a very sarcastic and really a, you know, I like to have a good time. I like to laugh. My sarcasm is those are work are all clientele. [00:22:54] Will Cadena: And usually the clients that come and book me, they know I'm sarcastic. They know, they know for a fact, if you are annoying me, I'm going to tell you, why are you being annoying? I just took care of you. Let's move forward. Let's go. So I kind of get away with stuff like that. Certain people can get away with that. [00:23:10] Will Cadena: There are certain, like, for example, there's certain clients that are very serious and very, they they're very particular what they want. They don't want someone that's always laughing, someone that's always out there or someone that is very outspoken. So those are the clients I don't book. and it's okay because those are the clients that don't want me. [00:23:25] Will Cadena: And, and I think that's the reality of it. I think for everyone is there's always going to be a particular person for your particular client for you. so this is where you have to look out for those red flags. and I learned that, you know, years down the line being in, in my career, I used to try to take everyone and the ones I used to just take everywhere left and right. [00:23:44] Will Cadena: Those are the ones that really became an issue. You know, I really, really became a nightmare in my, in my career. So, but yeah, I mean, that's about growing, right. So yep. A hundred percent. [00:23:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. So, yeah. Cool. so, so this is the point of the show where I asked you to look at your business, your work. From like a 30,000 foot view down as somebody who, is traveling a lot, they should become, you're familiar with that view. so, so look at your business from, from, from top down. And you've got, as you mentioned, a whole bunch of John Russ in your business, but let's pick one, for example. if you can give us a, an outline breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery for one of the genre is of your business. [00:24:32] Will Cadena: Okay. [00:24:32] Will Cadena: Let's, let's talk about fitness, fitness. so we, we we're w we're in charge of one of the largest, amateur, bodybuilding shows in the Northeast. we started, we had this amazing opportunity and. So we started, 20, 21. It was a F I never thought I'll be doing this, like as a main career. I'm sorry, the vision in our business, because one, I hate high volume. [00:24:57] Will Cadena: That's one, two. You just never know who you're going to be working with, you know, and on top of that fitness, I, my also my wife is a bikini competitor, so she competes and, you know, be soon her and multiple other competitors over the years, they were like, well, you got to get involved with this of I'm. [00:25:13] Will Cadena: Like, I don't want to get involved with this. I like to really get to know my clients before we photograph them. So long story short, we submitted a portfolio. There was over 500 photographers submitted for this opportunity. We were selected because of our portfolio and our expertise and so on its own and so on. and we. About two weeks before the show and guys, this is about creating value. I think that's one thing that it's nice that you do amazing work and you, then you have a price sheet, but if you're not creating value for our clients or a company, you're just like everyone else. So how can you separate yourself from someone else? [00:25:49] Will Cadena: So for us, it was really important to bring value to this league. And we kind of went into a lot as a partner, not as, Hey, I work for you, which we don't it's we created a partnership and we gave them different options and opportunities, how they can make even more money. And they appreciated that. And also we helped create marketing material for them. [00:26:08] Will Cadena: Did we get paid for the actual marketing material? No, but we knew the law term behind this. So for us, for any company that we work with, we always try to see where, how we can help them in some way or another. And for us, it was important to create this valley for them and for customer service. So going back to, you know, our workflow, we really took advantage of, you know, You know, artificial intelligence for this kind of stuff. [00:26:33] Will Cadena: And this is where Imagen really came into play, a saves us so much fricking time. It is insane how much time, because who wants to sit there and process each single image? I personally don't. I mean, my team members don't because that time they could be focusing on different avenues on our business to actually generate money for us. [00:26:51] Will Cadena: So yes, you might be dishing out a little bit of money using a certain kind of software is out there, but isn't it make you times 10 or a hundred more? So, I steered off from the CA or the co the question as always, sorry guys. I'm a little jet lag. I, allergies is going on right now and I'm on some pain medicines, so yeah. [00:27:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, so when you, these, these fitness, competitions, they, they come in or like, if they're just assigned to you, like you don't, you don't have any need to try to get the leads. They just come to you and say, Hey, here's the next one? Are you putting. [00:27:24] Will Cadena: Yeah, so let's be transparent cause I know there's gonna be people sitting there. [00:27:27] Will Cadena: That's one thing I, I, I, you know, I like like YouTube will podcasts in general. It's it's kinda like you're opening your can of worms to different things. So that's how you use the word give or, you know, or it was given to no, we have to work our butts off to get where we are. even though yes. The opportunity to happen. [00:27:45] Will Cadena: Yeah. So the show could be anywhere between possibly 200 competitors to possibly 1500 competitors of show. So every time when they are on stage, we're capturing them straight on. so that's one photographer will be capture another photographer. We'd be capturing a different area of the, a different angle of the, of the show. [00:28:04] Will Cadena: So just it's a different it's in directional shots. Then we have another photographer does the same thing. Then we have another photographer that does something else. So we have multiple crews that are out, and just capturing different angles. So when it comes down to that, it's hard to, because now the lighting. [00:28:21] Will Cadena: Becomes very inconsistent. especially depending on the camera that we're using, you know, or the folk on land, as we all know, if you shoot a wide angle, and you convert it to a long lens. You're going to start losing light because there's more elements in that lens. So sometimes we move is so quick, we forget to kind of adjust in that way. [00:28:37] Will Cadena: So, so this is where Imagen really played a very big part in our workflow because now, like you said, if there's a misfire, it brings it, it brings it close to where you want it to be. And really, you know, it saves us so much fricking time. but yeah, the workflow is pretty much. We shoot everything. We have a re we have a farm adamant team member there onsite, and she's downloading everything for us. [00:29:01] Will Cadena: She's organizing everything for us. And from there, we, we run a process using a software called after sheet, and that has been seen when us dramatically narrowed down. How many, like, for example, we shot, let's say a thousand shots and narrows down to the top. I don't know, say 300 shots. And then from there, that's when we bring it into. [00:29:20] Will Cadena: And it does work. It does exactly how we want it. Yes. We have to teach the software. Yes. We had to teach Imagen. I see sometimes people on, I guess the community pages, you know, it's not really working because you have to teach it. You have to show, you have to show them your styles. Everyone. I feel like these days, it just in general, it doesn't, they, they, you know, we have to crawl. [00:29:41] Will Cadena: And from there, you know, baby walk and run, everyone wants to just cry and run. So it just, I go into the gym, you know, this is why a profiles play were a big part. If you do weddings, fitness, family, portraits this on, you know, if you want to get abs, you can add, you're not going to get abs by doing pull-ups you, you need to discern kind of workflow. [00:30:00] Will Cadena: So it's the same idea. So, so going back to that, and once we do that, then when you put her thing, then we, obviously we retrieved the information for Imagen and then we export it. And this whole process honestly takes no more than a, I dunno. Depending on the job and how many competitors, it could be an hour. [00:30:17] Will Cadena: It could be possibly, you know, six hours depending on, on that, because yeah, it sounds like a lot of time, but for what we're shooting, we're photographing a lot. So think of it this way. It could be one camera could be anywhere between 15 shots to 20 shots and other camera will be about the same. So now you times that by one competitor, that's a lot of shots and you're dealing with high volume and the goal is always to upsell and not to give things away. so every, and everything that we do is purposely designed to be upgraded and we want them to upgrade as much as possible and think about I'm sorry. Well, this is something, [00:30:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so, so the, these, these clients, are they only wanting digitals? Are you trying to upsell them to prince too? Like how does that factor in, as far as I'm curious what the upsells are like in the delivery process? [00:31:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Like what they, what their. What they are hiring you for, like as the, as the product, right? [00:31:09] Will Cadena: yeah, that's a great question. I look, every, every genre is a certain, it has a certain thing needs and wants. Are you originally got into the, this analog, it guys take this as a grain of salt. There's always going to be, you know, there's always going to be people telling you, you know, what you're doing can not be done. [00:31:26] Will Cadena: You know, they will never buy, or my local area, you know, they can't afford it. And that's all I hear all the time. That's and to be very transparent to it, that's just an excuse. You creating these detours, there's people like, for example, I had a client, Chris, I had a client about, it was back in 2000, 2012, the client, they want to spend any money, their wedding when they were doing content, their wedding, they were going to have out of. [00:31:54] Will Cadena: Okay. So if you guys do a lot of homework in on what we do are a majority of our events are like at the Waldorf, at the Plaza hotel, very niche stuff at the breakers in Florida. And we got this client, I don't know where, and you know, she, they originally were guests at one of the, high caliber events that we'd done. [00:32:13] Will Cadena: And they got married, at, the venue was going to be at a bar. They spent like, no more than, let's say $2,000. That was a max. They contacted us, they went over the pricing and all that. So I don't like to bring up numbers in general because obviously we're, I know the average, I think that did a whole study back in 2017, 2018. [00:32:33] Will Cadena: The average studio is, is 25 to 3,500 bucks. That's what the book photography for in New York and major cities is different because the pricing is different. so they booked us for just for still photography at 16. Now the question, what the hell? What the hell can you get for 16? K? So obviously there's the products, you know, there's reputation. [00:32:55] Will Cadena: There's, you know, also there's a supply and demand. There were certain events that we were allowed to do. We only take no more than 20 weddings a year. obviously if God, like COVID when it hit, if we lost the weddings, what do you do? But this is why we always had to pivot and do multiple different things. [00:33:12] Will Cadena: So, you know, my, to, to my assistants at the time, going back to the client, am I, this, client's not going to go for it. I'm going to go for what, this is our pricing. Now, when they get there, the reception is at a bar. You know, I'm like, it doesn't matter. This is the rate. We're not going to change it because they get whatever sure enough, they booked us. [00:33:33] Will Cadena: And after the meeting, I might quite curious to know why, why did you book us? You know, it doesn't make any sense. The most important thing they said to them was. The money that they were, they could have spent that a venue for a hundred K 200 K 500 K they've ratted, just taken and traveled the world and buy something in Venice, Italy. [00:33:55] Will Cadena: So never assume what people say or, you know, people suggesting. So that's a little quick story on that. So going back to the fitness, everyone said, no, it wasn't a buy prince. No wasn't to by Walmart, they just want digital files. Okay. Well, I'm big into prints. I'm big. So when we started offering a showcase in and he made it easy for the competitors to buy prints and wall art pieces, and also opportunities for them to buy a gift card, to do a family session with their loved ones that dealt with, let's be transparent. [00:34:28] Will Cadena: My wife is a competitor. I love her to death and all that, but when she isn't competing. She's a pain in the ass. I love her, but she's just a freaking pain in the ass. Everywhere we go. I have a lot of clients, you know, that they, they own restaurants and boujee stuff and we can get to try some really cool, different cheeses around the world. [00:34:45] Will Cadena: You know, we can't do it because, you know, she's very particular on what she eats. So she usually just goes there. And if you guys are, if you guys have puppies out there, dogs, it's kind of like she's sitting there watching you eat, like and smelling, like, that's how it is. So, so, so yeah, so we started really incorporating the wall art pieces and no one ever said that they will spend that kind of money if you're not spending the money because there was never shown an offer to them. [00:35:12] Will Cadena: And what we started doing as well at the shows is displaying the work that we do so now, and let it let came from digital. You know, and again, the turnaround time on the digital files or anywhere between four to possibly six weeks after the show. And the problem with that problem with that is that sometimes these competitors are competing every weekend or every, every once, every two weeks or three weeks. [00:35:37] Will Cadena: So by the time they get those images or by the time they have an option to order it, they don't want them because they're already old. Right. So because yeah, so because of aftershoot and Imagen, Imagen, and also creating that structure in our business to get things done quick, these competitors are getting their stuff within 48 hours of show and that's pushing it. [00:35:54] Will Cadena: Or right now our turnaround time is really about figure about 16 hours after the show. And we also do a highlight, highlight images and posting them during the show during the time of the show. So it gets them like, oh my God, what if my shots are up? Like what? So now they share it on their end. And this is where we take advantage of, social media. [00:36:13] Will Cadena: You could collab with someone now, their friends are seeing it cause they're on stage as well, and they're competing and now they want to purchase and buy those images. So, we kind of want to be like the virus in a way like, oh my God, like we got to get it. We gotta get so, but yeah, so because of that, we've been selling so many prints and, and and, and leads into so many great opportunities because that's also how we get into other, markets. [00:36:33] Will Cadena: You know, some of these people are in the medical field. Some people are lawyers, some people are teachers. So now what's happened to those circles. So just like, you know, I'm sure majority of guys do wedding stuff, but think of it this, when you go and photograph a wedding, yes, you're photographing the bride and groom, but you also photograph from the parents assist of the brothers. [00:36:51] Will Cadena: Let's take a badge. I want to say, think about it. Create opportunities. All right. If you create this amazing experience for everyone, tap into what they do for a living, because that's an, a lead into so many great opportunities, you know, maybe the person's in the corporate field, you know, they might need a headshot, give them a hashtag, Hey, I saw you a headshot on LinkedIn. [00:37:10] Will Cadena: You know what I think we could do something very special for you come into the studio, we'll photograph you. And if you like it, awesome. You know, if, if you do like, it recommend us to your circle or to the person in charge of the management department of your, of your circle and get you in. So that's kinda like a, you know, that's a little taste of the workflow and also the business aspect of mine. [00:37:30] Will Cadena: So I know there's a lot of information. [00:37:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. So I have a, I have a one short story, but I also have a final question about that. So I'm gonna start with the question first. let's start with the question. The question is, you mentioned earlier that with families, you do. With these fitness, are you tethering or is it too high pace to do tethering and you have like a memory card runner, [00:37:54] Will Cadena: right. They want a segue, they want a segway. So yeah. You know what we've seen other, like, you know, league photographers, shoot tethered. We personally don't. again, we're like one of the very few whatnot. I mean, I know there might be another studio might be out there that does multiple crews. We're the, probably the only crew. [00:38:17] Will Cadena: And it's, it's been stated by the Federation that we actually come in with a whole. so we have multiple crews, so it's kind of hard to tether all these cameras on one. So we do, you know, we do, you know, you know, we have our tether person that we have, as, as the OCF car reader person that runs around and grabs the cards and dumps them. [00:38:34] Will Cadena: So we're all like we have walkies, we have it's, it looks like we, it's funny that we have the judges that say we're like seal team six. We have hand gestures, we have this, we like, something goes off. I'm like, I need backup. I need, it's a code red. And that just helps us really, you know, stay organized, focus. [00:38:51] Will Cadena: We're very well dressed then. yeah, w I think at the end of the day, you have to have a format and like anything and a structure base, and it will make life so much easier. But yeah, no, we, I wish we could tether the thing is, is so high, fast paced. We just don't have time. Yeah. Yeah. It's [00:39:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: slows down in, in many, in, in a super high, high speed situation. [00:39:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I mean, I photographed,okay. So I'm getting into a story before I even share the story I wanted to share. I put it back before I joined the karate school that I, that I train at, the founder of the school who passed during the pandemic, not from COVID. he, his actually his birthday, his birthday was, would have been today actually. he was working on his second book and, he asked me to photograph it. I was introduced to him and then he asked me to photograph it. And these were like, he didn't want like a punch to be like, slow, like capture, capture, capture. He wanted like to do the full thing and me just do it right. [00:39:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Photograph the whole thing. So I actually rented a Nikon D four at the time. I think it was. And, had, a strobe that could actually keep up. With it. And I wasn't wired. I was, I mean, I wasn't wireless. I was wired. I was tethered. So everything was going well. But then the tethering to the computer actually slowed things down more than the actual strokes, slowing things down. [00:40:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So that's one short story for you. what I wanted to share the story-wise before was I was photographing a family session a few years ago and their son is a cute kid and they wanted him to get into acting or modeling or something. And they said, could you do headshots? And I'm like, well, I got my lights and I can do headshots. [00:40:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And there's a white wall in the venue that we're at. They actually did the family session where they got married. So it was a beautiful venue that I was able to take advantage of. And, so I did the headshots and I was able to ups. I did them right then and there, cause I had the lights and, upsold, you know, I was able to upsell headshots on top of family. [00:40:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Not by saying, come back to the studio, but just by readjusting my entire lighting configuration and my, you know, what lens I had on and making it work, it just, you know, think on the fly and make [00:40:59] Will Cadena: it work well, that's the thing. I mean, and then that's when it comes really to experience, you know, I noticed that people always want the settings on social media or wherever or conferences, you know, you can always apply those settings to every scenario. [00:41:15] Will Cadena: It's more of the theory behind it. And you know, like, you know, there's always people who are like, oh, well I could have done that shot or I could have. Yeah. But the thing is you were in there, so you know exactly what was happening and, you know, the obstacles and in like, like for you, like you just, you adjusted and you made it work. [00:41:31] Will Cadena: And I think that's where it is when people are on the pressure. That's when you get to see when they shine. you know, for, you know, I try to set up at least once a month before it was more, but we just got really busy. We should do training sessions once every two weeks with the team members and they will come in, obviously we split them up and we put them in as scenarios. [00:41:49] Will Cadena: Whereas it's, you know, it's high pressure for, in other words, I'll be lobby of the client or the event planner, or, you know, you have an hour to get the shot shots, but now then I drop it down to like two minutes. Like how would you adapt to that? and that's the biggest things, because more, you prepare more, you understand how your gear works, what are the limitations on it? [00:42:09] Will Cadena: You know, what can you do? Let's just say, you know, you're a photographer and you're in and you have an assistant and let's say the assistant something happens. He can't be there. How do you adjust for that? What do you do? You know, you can't have a double light anymore, so you'll bring extra licenses and you set up actual lights and then. [00:42:26] Will Cadena: You sent them in a, in a room. So now when you get to that room, your turn on that flash, you ready to go? So it's just adapting and, you know, thinking outside the box and I, I, you know, I commend you for making those adjustments, man. So, I mean, like I said, this is all by experience. I, like I said, every job I go to, there's always something that goes wrong and, and, you know, 99% of the time everything goes right. [00:42:49] Will Cadena: But is when that 1% that's when there's going to determine on what to do, let me give you an example, like on Saturday. So we also, you know, we do photography with the video and we also do live streaming. So we're live streaming. Some of the big, you know, pro shows we'd do pro shows as well for the fitness stuff and everything was perfect that day. [00:43:07] Will Cadena: Everything was perfect that day. Sure enough. And I kept on checking status instant. I was great. Of course, during the peak is time of the show. The system stopped of live stream. So mind you, this was a global show and everyone was watching and we again had some great stuff. And, of course it was still considered a newbies. [00:43:28] Will Cadena: Cause we got into the industry last year and everyone, everyone wants us to fail. Not every course. There's always going to be those few people that just wants us to fail in every way possible. And that's reality. And because yeah, you know what? I like those because you know, they, they're the ones that gave me the fire and you know, same thing when we got into an industry, people like they thought we were retouching everything and enhancing everything dramatically in order to create those looks. [00:43:51] Will Cadena: I mean, no, that's, in-camera, that's learning the technology. We're not letting the camera do the work. It's understanding lighting, color temperatures. And obviously post-production plays a part in it. But now we have imagined that really takes a lot of the BS out of the equation and the turnaround time. [00:44:07] Will Cadena: So going back to live streaming and went down and I'm like, and it was Adam or whichever or control. So now the question is like, holy shoot. You know, what do we do? And this is why it's really important to have a great relationship. Not only what your team members, but the people outside our circle. So we have a great relationship with the MC on the, on the mic. [00:44:29] Will Cadena: We, because there's a commentator, MC every time when a competitor comes out, she's mentioned their names and who they are, whatever. And also the, you know, the people in charge on the stage. So when you have this great relationship with everyone, you build on that foundation that family-wise, and you let them know, Hey, listen, this system just went down. [00:44:48] Will Cadena: We will need about 10 minutes to reboot. Can you stall? Not even questioning about it because they know how we work. We'll get you it. And they literally kind of detoured everything, not the, but they kind of, you know, Brought up the schedule for the year and this and that. No one at the show noticed that something went wrong. [00:45:10] Will Cadena: And again, that wasn't even us, it looks like the system just shot, you know, whatever live streaming mixed in with the electrical part. So it looks like those electrical issue at the, at the venue. So the reason why I'm bringing that up is take advantage or, you know, build a relationship with other people. [00:45:26] Will Cadena: Because if you ever, when shit hits the fan, those people will come and help you out and vice versa. And it's all about building that rapport and those relationships, like, you know, this is how we met, right? We contacted you and Ron and we stayed in touch. I actually, Michael Anthony, he put us in touch, you know, we wanted to see if you guys can help us out. in the beginning, we weren't really sure like anything else when you first started, a new, You know, journey, you kind of hesitated, you have 20,000 questions, you're unsure, just stressed out, but you guys got really guided us the right way and you answered a lot of the questions. So, and, and I really, really appreciate that about you guys. [00:45:59] Will Cadena: You guys have great customer service and, and I'm looking forward to see, and also excited to see what you guys will come up with next. So thank you for that also. Yeah. So yeah, [00:46:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: we're gonna, we're gonna, we're going to be wrapping this up, but I have two questions for you. One is deep, but I'm going to do that one last. so the first one is, related to what you were just talking about, sort of, what does the future of AI and photography look like to you? [00:46:31] Will Cadena: I think it has an amazing, it's it's an amazing opportunity because, you know, just embracing technology. I come from the film days, I shot media format during the film days, I shot real jobs, paying jobs, film days, been in industry a long time. And when there was opportunity when digital first started coming out, yeah, I was interested in it and I got to dabble and eventually, you know, I bought my first, digital camera. [00:46:58] Will Cadena: It was, I believe it was the Canon 20 D and started shooting a film in digital. And I started seeing, yes, there was an up and downs about it, but it was like a no brainer. So I think these days we have to embrace what's out there. And if we're not, we're going to be left behind. I, you know, I never want to be considered. [00:47:15] Will Cadena: Oh well, and I'm sure you guys all hear it. Oh, that old school guy still shoots the same. Oh, he's complaining about, he's not getting paid, always complain. He's not getting work. And the reason majority of time that's the case is because we're not being up to date. so yeah, I think AI technology is, is amazing. for me personally, the certain things I'm kind of worried about AI because, I used to work with the United nations and some private, private clients, how that, you know, how do you make that work? And that also comes up in my, my cause. So that's a question that we need to talk about as well. but also with this AI, it makes it really accessible to many people, not only just photographers, but to many others to get into our industry. [00:47:56] Will Cadena: And in a way it's kind of good because now if newbies are coming into our industry, now the question is, are we going to complain about what they're doing and what they're charging or we're going to elevate and what we do, we're going to create more value. We're going to bring more to the table and we're going to just create a, just, just overall a great experience. [00:48:15] Will Cadena: So I could see the expectations and give them a reason not to like elsewhere. Well, think about. When you think about the one example I know, I know we'll make it as long, but it's like going to a store and you're like you really particularly on, on something at a store and then we'll have it. What are you going to do? [00:48:30] Will Cadena: You typically will go. So looking someplace else and next, you know, you find, you find something that you really needed and want it. You find the buddy, you also see something else that they have, which is cool. Now it's kind of hard to go back to that original store that they didn't have, what you want. [00:48:45] Will Cadena: But you liked the new store because they were just easy, nice down to earth. So it's kind of hard to go back to that other store. It's not different from a restaurant. so same idea. Like I have my own cheers. I don't know how young you guys are, but old, but I used to watch the show and everyone knew your name. [00:49:01] Will Cadena: Cheers. So it was kind of like that. I have no problem spending the money there because of the relationship and the rapport that I have with them. And no matter what we do in general, life doesn't matter, photography, video, real estate it's, we're building relationships. And that's, that's my biggest tip for you guys is build solid relationships because it can lead into so many things. [00:49:19] Will Cadena: I know it's not sexy. Lighting is sexy. Imagen it's sexy, but building relationships that will keep you in business and plus, so, yeah, I think that's for me, Yeah, hopefully I answered that question. [00:49:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. My last question, which is deep, and you have touched on this briefly, but if we can sum it up, how did Imagen impact your life [00:49:52] Will Cadena: gave me time to be honest with you. Very, very much time. I w I got, I mean, there was a point and being transparent. I mean, you already know I'm very transparent as it is. sometimes it gets me in trouble, gets me in trouble with my sponsors. So like, well, you can't say that. I'm like, why? Cause everyone is so sensitive. [00:50:11] Will Cadena: Like cut it out, cut the bullshit. there was a time that,you know, let's bring up the fitness part. I can bring up several different times, but we were shooting so much. The problem is some of the locations that we're shooting the lighting's not the best. so we have, you know, sometimes again, even last year was hard because we were still getting out of COVID. [00:50:28] Will Cadena: So a lot of these shows they didn't have the budgets that they originally had. So they had to bring somebody show SU not the best locations. So they have of these high hat lights coming in. So for example, if a light is coming down a heart's here, but no light coming here and a Heartlight here and there's a competitor here and a competitor here and here what's going to happen in between that I'm going to be very dark or this person would be very dark here, on my right or left. [00:50:54] Will Cadena: So it was annoying going to every single image, trying to adjust it back and forth. So, you know, some of these shows are we're photographing anywhere between, let's say at the lowest 6,000 photographs. So possibly like we just did a pro show this past Saturday, we had close to 16,000 for. And mind you that's between four photographers and I wasn't even shooting. [00:51:15] Will Cadena: I had my team members shoot, cause I, you know, I was doing some other things and building relationships so we could get gym contracts and branding shoots. So, so imagine sitting there and trying to adjust all those images at night and trying to deliver them within a matter of 48 hours, you know, far as the biggest thing is for me is if I say we're going to execute it at a certain timeframe, we're going to do it. because we were also still building and creating that comp building that trust in our brand like, Hey, if we say 48 hours, the images will be ready. They'll be ready. So I was spending maybe two or three shows just in the middle of night just doing them. I'm like, oh my God, not just me, but Joey and the two team members. [00:51:52] Will Cadena: So when Imagen came into the play and we saw them taking advantage of that, I'm like, I, I literally, you know, imported the catalog into Imagen, let it upload shot. Went to bed woke up and like, Hey, will there re so bitch go have fun. [00:52:22] Will Cadena: It was like the best thing ever. It was like, oh my I'm like, and I was like, oh man, this is bullshit. This is not ready. There's no way it could be ready. There's no way I could be ready. So I, I downloaded it. I checked it out. I'm like, holy shit, they're ready. They're fricking ready. I'm like, this is bullshit. [00:52:36] Will Cadena: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I kept on going on and on, there has to be one or two now. So I was like, all right, let me export some Sykes port, a few randomly. Cause you know, if I want to export the whole job, it will take at least six hours or something like that. And sure enough, everything worked. And I was like, oh my God, That was it. [00:52:54] Will Cadena: I call my team members. I think it was like two in the morning. Then I, it worked. They weren't then like, what are you talking to my work? I'm like, well, we'll talk tomorrow. I'm like, no, it worked. And, sure enough, after that we started just using it for every show and it was like, and I know this is a podcast for you guys. [00:53:09] Will Cadena: Imagen people listen to, oh, well that's bullshit. They just haven't won. I'm like guys, no bullshit. Just try it out. Teach the software upload as much as he can. More information that the software magic could read and understand. It will be easier. And like anything else? There's no perfect, you know, software out there. [00:53:28] Will Cadena: There's no perfect you out there. understand that will be hiccups. And I see that, like, this is always going to be a hiccup in some way or another, unless you're a perfect human, then it's a different story, but [00:53:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: that's it. That's the thing that people don't realize is, and we try to, we try to say it as much as we can that it's like sending to a human editor. [00:53:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It has to learn from. And it's gonna take time. It's not it's, it's not a magic bullet. It's gonna, it's going to take time. [00:53:56] Will Cadena: Yeah. It's not a take time. I mean, I look at it and if it's messing up, you gotta like yourself in the mirror. [00:54:05] Will Cadena: Like I'm not saying like that's always the case. There's always that, that small percentage that, and look, technology's awesome. You know, when you have a machine that does something majority of time, it won't work. If, if it breaks down or, or something that we did something wrong, but it was also, you know, sometimes things happen. [00:54:23] Will Cadena: Sometimes there are glitches. I found that two glitches from different kinds of softwares in passing. No one believed me like multi million dollar companies on my digital. I can, you know, system. Not with no one reported. I'm like, okay, sure enough. Sure enough. It went public recently. I mentioned the company by like showing up there was a glitch in the system. so you just never know, but at the end of the day you just gotta be open-minded and again, you know, this is a new journey, a new journey for the industry. So they are going to be corks. They are, you know, everyone's learning just like you, you're learning about gear or lighting business. The same thing when Imagen is learning. [00:54:56] Will Cadena: So just be open-minded and also give yourself wiggle room, you know? Well, another thing I always notice and conferences, I want to see online and you know, oh, you know, this, this program or this lighting, it sucks. I know it doesn't work. I'm like, okay. When, when was the shoe? Oh, was that Thursday? Okay. When did you get the gear that Wednesday night? [00:55:20] Will Cadena: No shit. You, you, you're not used to using the technology. So you're going out there. You'll kind of test in this gear on a real. And, and majority of fact factors is people complain. But then I read in the manuals, they're not taking the time to educate themselves on the gear or the software. So be mindful of that. and I, I feel like these days, everyone just wants to pass the buck, right. Just slow down and relax and, you know, and look, I I'm guilty of that years ago. And do I get like that sometimes? Yeah, I do. But you know, own up to it, apologize for it, you know? So I feel like there's more people that will complain on social media or on Google reviews instead of, Hey, we had an amazing time at this restaurant. [00:56:00] Will Cadena: Thank you. You know, I highly recommend they give a five, you said negative one. Oh, it's like, come on and be better. Be a better human be, be, be kind, be nice. Be kind because when you're kind, as we all know, it goes a long way and I'm all about that. It doesn't matter how much money you have in your bank account, what you drive or who you related to, or if you have nothing, if you're kind of, it goes a long way. [00:56:24] Will Cadena: Not only. Reputation, but you get to sleep better at night. So, yeah, that was deep. Huh? That was [00:56:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: the D so we'll where can our listeners learn more about you connect with you and of course see your incredible photography. I mean, guys, if you could just go on Google will Cadena w I L L last name C a D E N a a. [00:56:49] Will Cadena: You could see some of our stuff on our site. Instagram, like just recently we got our fitness page on Instagram. Got hacked. I have no idea how that happened. We had an, a crazy password set up and they hack there are IgE, so I'm hoping to get it back. So you'd get to see more of that. but yeah, you get to see some old work and majority of stuff that you will see is in-camera and a lot of is done by Imagen. [00:57:09] Will Cadena: So, and you know, we appreciate you guys back in Imagen and I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys create in the next few months. So, but thank you for having me on the show and thanks for everyone for listening and taking the time. I appreciate you guys. Thank you [00:57:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so much. Well, thank you all for that incredible, incredible conversation. [00:57:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I hope all of you listeners walked away, getting some juicy, juicy knowledge and advice from Will's workflows. when he was talked about a whole wide range of things and it was such an incredible conversation, you have been listening to workloads presented by Imagen to hear more from workflows and to find a link to our guests. [00:57:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Please go to Imagen-ai.com/podcast. Be a part of the conversation by joining the Imagener community at imagine-ai.com slash community, and be sure to subscribe to the podcast on apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for tuning in until next time.