How to Offer a Premium Client Experience From First Contact to Delivery with Miles Witt Boyer

68 === ​[00:00:00] [00:00:02] Miles Witt Boyer: Hey everybody. This is Miles Witt Boyer. I'm a wedding photographer out of Bentonville, Arkansas, and you are listening to the Workflows Podcast [00:00:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I'm really excited about this Miles. We were just hanging out in New York City and it was a blast. now this episode is airing way after our New York City meetup, but, let's, let's, let's quickly talk about what, what, what, just, what just happened. Um, we were at BILD, which it was B&H'S Expo. They put on in New York City at the Javits Center and it was massive. Massive, [00:00:35] Miles Witt Boyer: That was huge. was huge. Dude. I, um, man, I had so much fun with you guys. I love that we're just jumping straight into this because that [00:00:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh yeah. [00:00:44] Miles Witt Boyer: what we did in New York, right? Like they, we just threw ourselves headfirst into what did they, what was the number? 60,000 photographers, right? [00:00:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: 60,000 signed up. We still don't know the number of how many actually attended, but based on my experience from [00:01:00] other events, my guesstimate is day one had 10,000 plus people.day two was a little slower, but like consistent as far as traffic goes. but that was a wave, a tidal wave of, of an event. [00:01:18] Miles Witt Boyer: Yeah. I feel like I met at least 60,000 people [00:01:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. [00:01:22] Miles Witt Boyer: two days. [00:01:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And you remember everybody's name? [00:01:26] Miles Witt Boyer: Dude, Scott, I'm a little bit of a germaphobe. I don't know if you caught that from me or not, but I am just a little bit J, you can't even make this up. Literally on my way out the door, my wife was like, don't come home with COVID, or the flu or something, right? And then I walk into the Java Center and I'm like, oh, we're all, this is it right here. Like this is a super spreader event and do the number of fist bumps and high fives and handshakes. [00:01:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. [00:01:53] Miles Witt Boyer: it doesn't help that you guys put my freaking face on the banner, so people that didn't even know who I was were like, Hey, aren't you that? Uh, and I'm [00:02:00] like, yes, that is me. [00:02:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And it's even funnier when you stand next to the banner, [00:02:04] Miles Witt Boyer: I did that on [00:02:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: to the. [00:02:06] Miles Witt Boyer: Yeah, I, I figured if there was going to be a photo of me anyway, I might as well stand next to it. man, such, such a blast though, with you guys and, and like, truth be told, I mean, I've done some pretty large events and so I, I felt like I knew what I was walking into there. But it was really unique for me to see the way that BILD has adjusted, the, the demographic of who, who shows up to those events. I mean, it was a very young kind of influencer, heavy crowd. and the sheer number of bad TikTok dances that I watched happen, over the course of those few days was pretty embarrassing, but like, because. Because BNH does such a good job of like pulling the right crowd in. Man, I felt like our booth, can I say our, your [00:02:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, you can say our booth? [00:02:52] Miles Witt Boyer: feel like it's, it's [00:02:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You were there. You were hanging. [00:02:55] Miles Witt Boyer: was buzzing, man. Like there were times where there was like 10, 12 [00:03:00] people deep just waiting to try and hear what was happening. And the coolest thing was we were on literally only giving away stickers and free edits. I was like, yeah, we're sucking people off the huge booths right now so that they can get a free sticker and some edits. [00:03:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So before BILD.we, we did something really special. We hosted a photowalk that you led, and your main man, Jared, was recording some video content, for the photowalk. And we had a variety of friends and community members join the, the photowalk and learn from you, photograph their own photos of, of your couple. But the best part. Not just watching you work, which is just, you know, inspiring in itself. But the best part is that you were photographing a legit couple whose wedding you're photographing, or did that, did the wedding happen [00:03:53] Miles Witt Boyer: no, it, it happens in, uh, late August. [00:03:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. So it wasn't like we just hired [00:04:00] models, right? they were legit in love getting married about to spend their rest of their lives together. But also very creative people in their own Right. Right. They're both architects, and one of which is also a photographer at the firm that she works at. Correct? Am I, [00:04:21] Miles Witt Boyer: man. You got this story down, Scott, like you, you caught it all. [00:04:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It was just, um, I feel like, if you, if you were to rate from one to 10 how a photowalk could go, because a lot of stuff can go wrong, right? Because you're in the middle of a New York City. High congested traffic area, touristy areas, a lot could go wrong. This went to 11, right? It went really well from start to finish. so we, yeah. And there was only one cop in, you know, uh, interaction that, that occurred, and that's, [00:04:52] Miles Witt Boyer: a cop. I'm gonna say that was a, that was like a mall cop situation and we should probably explain what happened there. Okay. Well, so let me back [00:05:00] up enough though, Scott, to tell you so, yeah, Hannah and Stone, my couple I. The call that happened to them was so cool. so you guys kind of pitched me on this idea of like, let's do a photowalk, but, but the vision here wasn't what I've done in the past. I've done, I've done a lot of photowalks in the past, right. Which is like, let's just have. You know, 50, a hundred random people show up and try and take photos of your couple while you're shooting them. There's nothing inherently wrong with those other than the fact that you sort of commoditize the education because by the time the people out on the wings take the same exhausted, but probably bad photo as the people in the middle, people just start fighting for position. They're not learning anything. They're not listening to anything. And so the reality is like anybo of us that hold cameras know that at any given moment, like there might be two or three good angles on a, on a moment, but there is not 30. Like that doesn't exist. And. That the reason you often hear a photographer do a [00:06:00] photowalk is to hear their perspective. And once you dilute that perspective, then you might as well not even be there. And so this idea was so cool. It was, hey, let's invite some friends and some confu community members and some people in, but like, let's do this for the vi a video perspective so that people that can't be there can get your perspective and man. I'm not great. I mean, sitting here with a mic in my face, I feel pretty confident, but. In, in walking around Manhattan with a mic taped to my chest, thanks a lot, Jared. [00:06:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: For like two hours. [00:06:35] Miles Witt Boyer: Yeah, I was, man. I was nervous, but then the follow up there was, okay, if I'm gonna do this, I want to be able to have time to scout it and do it. How I would actually do a shoot. Like, I would never just roll into Manhattan and say, let's wing it. I would, I would never do that. So I had the opportunity with Noella earlier to go out and kind of wander and scout and just sort of pick, get a, get a game plan, four locations that I [00:07:00] was like, as long as we can hit these four in order, I can, I can create a, a momentum throughout them. so that's great. But then the. The, the key, the secret here was like you mentioned, let's bring in a couple that, that, that truly understands my process because they're going through it right now. [00:07:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. [00:07:20] Miles Witt Boyer: and uh, and that was really cool. And how cool is it that they flew from Kansas City to Manhattan just for a two hour photo shoot with me? Like, how [00:07:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: cool It was, [00:07:29] Miles Witt Boyer: that? So, [00:07:30] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it was. It was, it was truly a special. There, there are photowalks and then there are photowalks, and this was a, definitely a special, special photowalk on, on, on all fronts. [00:07:41] Miles Witt Boyer: the, the mall cop though, that was so ridiculous. All I did listeners, guys, if you, okay, if you follow along with me much, you'll see me climb on a bunch of stuff. I just climbed things. I don't know. Sometimes I get a little bored and I'm like, I don't know. Maybe if I was up there, I'd like the shot better, but this was an actual intentional composition. I just [00:08:00] [00:08:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: If you were seven feet tall, you wouldn't have had to climb. [00:08:02] Miles Witt Boyer: Well, I, [00:08:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You're almost there, but [00:08:04] Miles Witt Boyer: yeah. Um, you should have just climbed on my shoulders. so all I did was climb on a handrail. And to be fair, you, I did not climb on a handrail, like where had I fallen I would have fallen three feet. Like this wasn't a dangerous scenario, but, we had a security, a High Line security guard. Stop me. hey, by the way, sidebar here. Scott, did you see. Um, the next day, Taylor Jackson posted a photo of, of Jason Vinson, uh, up hugging that giant pigeon [00:08:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, really? [00:08:35] Miles Witt Boyer: the same security guard kicked him off of the [00:08:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: really. [00:08:38] Miles Witt Boyer: Yeah, he was hugging that sculpture. That's the most Vinson thing I can say. [00:08:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It totally is. I, or or riding it, getting on its back. [00:08:46] Miles Witt Boyer: that either one of those would be, would be possible. so, but yeah, Taylor Taylor posted a thing about how, he got in trouble as well, so I at least I wasn't the only, [00:08:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, [00:08:56] Miles Witt Boyer: you know, juvenile delinquent in the moment. [00:08:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: she, she probably [00:09:00] has to say stuff, something to like 5 to 10 people a day is my guess. just probably her job is to just [00:09:06] Miles Witt Boyer: Do you remember what she said though? 'cause I remember it verbatim. [00:09:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I think she said that it, it, it can't handle the human weight or something like that. Like it can't handle. [00:09:17] Miles Witt Boyer: that is not intended to hold a human for very long. I'm like, you couldn't have made that more awkward. [00:09:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yep. [00:09:27] Miles Witt Boyer: me. Take me to jail because I'm gonna laugh in your face at this moment. Like I [00:09:30] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:09:31] Miles Witt Boyer: for very long. And I'm also kind of a skinny guy. I, so if it can hold a regular human for, I surely I can last just a few more seconds. [00:09:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And the the, the fun part though, at, at the end of the day, you got up high to get a certain shot waiting for taxis to drive underneath where we were. And you got it. The taxis came. So the end of the day it was worth being scolded by a High Line cop. [00:09:58] Miles Witt Boyer: it. It is always [00:10:00] worth being scolded by the High Line cop man. It was just great. The whole, the whole experience in New York was really special. It was the first time I've had the chance to, to really meet and hang out with all you guys. and I.and I mentioned, I mean I've done a lot of these events over the years with a lot of different sponsors and different teams and different purposes, but I have never before felt myself integrate into like a team culture as [00:10:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm. [00:10:24] Miles Witt Boyer: I mean, I feel like I have been hanging out with you guys for years. [00:10:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:10:27] Miles Witt Boyer: and so much of that was due to like you and Noella and Guy, but then all the other ambassadors as well, like everybody else that was there that just took the opportunity to sort of like pull us in and say like, you know, Hey, sit here and shut up. And we did. it was, uh, it was really special to get to hear Yeah. Hear everything that, that, that, uh, that dinner with you guys at, uh, at Tony's, that was one of the, one of the high, high points. I've had a lot of high points in my career, but that was, that was a pretty special point for me. So [00:10:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It was a good dinner. It was very [00:11:00] loud. very [00:11:01] Miles Witt Boyer: loud. Yeah. [00:11:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But, it was, the food was really good [00:11:04] Miles Witt Boyer: at Scott for, not you other Scott. for, for like an hour. We were trying to at Ace. who by the way, coolest guy. [00:11:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. Really nice guy too. Yeah. [00:11:15] Miles Witt Boyer: okay. Alright man. So, so what do we have? What do we have on deck? What are we going to give, what, what are we gonna give the people today, Scott? [00:11:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. So first I wanna talk about, we're gonna talk one or two things that are going well in your workflow. again, like these are, we like to talk about workflows from behind the camera to delivery, right? Not just editing, not just culling, not just retouching, right? We wanna cover all aspects in on this podcast. So. Let's, let's talk about the first thing that has been going well in your workflow, that, uh, you'd love to share, you know, a little bit of the details with our listeners. [00:11:51] Miles Witt Boyer: Cool. okay, first things first. It actually kinda makes sense I guess to start towards the beginning. So let's start with, uh, the pre-pro work. I think it's [00:12:00] been three years now. Something like that. It's 2025. Yeah. Kind of tail end of all the pandemic junk. Um. Jared and I kind of had an opportunity to look at our demographic, our, our, our, our base, our clientele, but also our area. and we travel a lot. And so like where are we getting brought into and who is it that's hiring us and how are we serving them well? and then follow up to that is like how, how are we dropping balls that are worth a lot of money and. One of the things that we came down to, actually, this will follow up. This is cool. This will follow up into the second thing that I think is going well. But one of the things that we came down to was, was the fact that we were still being very reactive in our business in general. What I mean by that right, is like, okay, so a couple hires me to shoot their wedding in, in New Jersey or something, and, and. of course, like any photographer, I mean, I, I look up the, the venue website, kind of acclimate myself just a little bit and help 'em BILD a [00:13:00] schedule that's pretty much plug and play to every other wedding I've shot. And, and then spend a little bit of time hyping them up and making them feel like I'm their best friend. And then we kind of shoot the wedding and we get paid for it. And, and it is what it is. But what I realized, Scott, is that, if everybody's doing that, that isn't the standard. That's the bare minimum. That's the minimum level of effort that is expected. And if we want to give our clientele a level of service that is much higher than what's expected, and then by doing that, want to be able to charge considerably more than what is average, that has to start early. And so, we, we've kind of reimagined our entire pre-production concept to, to spending a lot longer. Researching and planning, helping, design these days, allowing our, our clients to have a ton of access to different resources that we've built out for them on, on explaining different ways that we BILD the schedules and, and asking for their trust, but [00:14:00] really kind of earning that trust throughout the process. Uh, and so I would say in general, we probably went from. I don't know, maybe even including a consultation, outside of like an engagement shoot or something like that. But maybe four, three or four hours of total pre-production time, uh, for like the first 12 years of my career to now in the realm of like 20 plus hours of total pre-production time. Um,just. Connecting with the vendors, ahead of time, making sure that we understand what they're excited about, getting a, getting a feel for like, you know, is the wedding planner planning something different from this wedding than she's done before? And how is it that we can BILD time in the schedule to document that just for her? Um, you know, so all of those things are going very well. [00:14:48] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So in, [00:14:49] Miles Witt Boyer: to like skyrocket our prices because of that. [00:14:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So regarding like the vendor, so instead of just you doing the research and knowing, [00:15:00] um, based on like other people's photos at the venue and, if they've ever done like a, the inside Google Street view type of things of the, of the property or whatever it might be of you're, are you now going as far as like having a call with the planner that's from the venue or? or? and what kind of things, what kind of things do you discuss with the vendor that, would wind up helping you but also helping them? [00:15:26] Miles Witt Boyer: So a lot of this stuff is a posture, more than it is actually like a conversation. It's, it, instead of trying to convey this as like, if you will just follow these eight steps, it's more a posture of saying like, we wanted our business. I. To be about a service. The, the truth of the matter is, most of us in, in this industry are selling a product that doesn't exist yet, right? We're selling a product to a clientele based on, a product that we provided to another client.you know, and so, and that, that's inherent and that's good. [00:16:00] That's a, that's a healthy thing. But, but. Because most of our industry is really sort of ignorant to that as a fact, we tend to sell these products as though they already exist. And instead what we, what we actually can sell confidently is a service. We know what we can do for people. And so that posture shifts the way that we deal with everybody. So I'll give you an example. I mean, not just the wedding coordinators, but I, I just spent right before we jumped on this call, I just spent two hours on a call with a new bride who, um, who is getting married in Hope Town. The Bahamas tiny little island in The Bahamas. It's like multiple ferries to get there. they are, they're reserving two complete hotels to different resorts. There's only like four resorts on the entire island, and they're reserving two of them for their guests. And if you just Google wedding photos at In Hope Town in The Bahamas, they're pretty bad. the, the photos are pretty bad. I, I don't mean that in like a hateful way. I just mean you're not [00:17:00] seeing a lot of really like high level, top-notch work being done here. And so. Trying to convey to this very high-end couple what their work is gonna look like. We can't use examples of other people's work. that's just not a, it's one that's not a great look anyway, but that's just not a reality for this one. But what we can do is send them over, send diagrams from the day of their wedding and say, Hey, if we are in these locations. At these times, I can promise the light is gonna sing. It's gonna be great. And, you know, here's Google Maps, where we can, we can map out roots, like there's some really cool little architectural areas over here. Here's information on how to get a permit to get up in the lighthouse. I. And I will, I'll handle it. I'll contact the person. I, I got all that worked out. All I need from you guys is just to trust me that I'm gonna be the photographer that's gonna put you guys first. And, uh, and then allow me to BILD your schedule to where we can, we can piecemeal all these dreams together. [00:18:00] Uh, and so it's just a posture there, like a shift, a posture that says everything along the way. So it's the same thing then for the wedding planners is us saying like, Hey, we know that you have to do this maybe 10 times a year, 15 times a year, 25 times a year. is it that you wish that you had more of? Like, how can we make you look like the hero here [00:18:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:18:23] Miles Witt Boyer: and. There's always a positive response to that, and the response is always really beneficial when we follow through, when it's like, you know, Hey, you know, we know that you love, like we hear this often the wedding planners will say back, we know that you love sunset photos, you love golden hour photos, but we work so hard on the room BILD. [00:18:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm. [00:18:41] Miles Witt Boyer: can you, can you make sure that there's time set aside for pristine photos of all the decor, you know, like wide, mid, tight shots of all, of all the setup? Absolutely. Yes. We can absolutely do that. Right. can you make sure that we get great shots of the invitation suite?yes, absolutely. Even we can go further than that [00:19:00] instead of asking the photographer. Who has no actual design skill whatsoever? 'cause I hold a camera to do the flat lay. Why don't you, the wedding planner, BILD me the flat, lay in in a way that you feel like is beautiful, that you're proud of, that's on brand for you and the client. It's, this is a cool opportunity for you to do this and I can not only take photos of you doing it, but then I can take photos of your work for you. [00:19:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, it's a really good way to, to deliver for your couples, but also deliver for the venues and, and vendors that you're working with, um, by getting, being able to give them what they actually need. not just want, but they actually need to book more, of those weddings. It, it could even be as something as simple as, um. You know, talking about an island, right? So, you know, we've got this new location, on our property and it's on a cliff and we don't have any good photos. Do you think you could do a drone photo? Oh, Jared, bring your drone buddy.you know, and now you got an epic shot of a brand new [00:20:00] location that they don't have anything of for them. That's a going above and beyond. [00:20:03] Miles Witt Boyer: I mean, I think our photo industry in general, because a lot of us kind of walk around with a weird chip on our shoulder. and I don't really know exactly where that comes from, but, but I, but I see it, I mean, you know, walking through a room with 60,000 photographers, a third of them for some reason have this very kind of like. Isolated, sort of like energy to them, right? Where they're like, you know, I, I already have everything worked out. I've already got it dialed out. I'm like, then why are you here? [00:20:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. [00:20:31] Miles Witt Boyer: already know everything, then what is it that you're doing here? Right? And, but because so, so many of us struggle, you know, with the reality that like, we need, or I'll put it this way, I, I need the planners to do a great job because when they do a great job, my job gets better. [00:20:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. [00:20:50] Miles Witt Boyer: I need the florist to be awesome. I don't care a ton about the cake, but you know, sure, the cake is good. I, but I do like, I need the dress [00:21:00] to fit well. I need the groom to be well styled. And if all of those things are true, and I think most of us can say like that, those things are true, they actually elevate our work well, then why don't we, as the industry take a, a vested interest in helping those things, right? So I spend a lot of time with our grooms saying like, Hey. This is your wedding. This, this isn't an opportunity. You don't need to like run down a men's warehouse and buy something off the rack, like let's get you a custom tuxedo that is fit for your body. That where you just, you should look like a million bucks today. I. Right. And then we hear, but we hear back from people all the time, oh, you guys work with the best looking guys? And I'm like, no, we don't. We just help our guys look their best. Right. And it's the same thing with our brides. Like, you know, send us over your dresses. Wait, I, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna veto your dress. I want you to feel beautiful. And do you, this is your dress. But like, I'm super happy if you are torn between a few dresses. I'm super happy to tell you, you know, like, well, that one is gonna have great movement. It's gonna, it's [00:22:00] gonna allow us to like, have all kinds of different playful, compositions and, and fun. And then that one is gonna wrinkle very easily and it's gonna fall all day. And you're gonna, you're gonna fight it all day. You know? I mean, after 600 weddings, if I can't help pre-pro producee these events, who can, [00:22:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, yeah. [00:22:18] Miles Witt Boyer: So that, that's what I would say is the first thing that's going very well. And the, the, I think this is like brass tacks for most photographers, but the, the way that I can see that going well is not just that our clients are, are loving their work. again, that's the bare minimum, right? [00:22:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:22:36] Miles Witt Boyer: But it's the fact that our clients are coming back week after week after week saying we spent more than we had budgeted on you, and we got infinitely more than what we bought. And I'm like, okay, so you blew the budget on me and you still feel like you got a value. That means that we're in the, we're in the right wheelhouse. You [00:22:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep, a hundred percent. Yep. [00:22:59] Miles Witt Boyer: [00:23:00] so [00:23:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Undersell over deliver, and even underselling, but still doing well for yourself is it's a win-win. It's a win-win for everybody. Yeah. Um, so you teased a little bit about the second thing that's been going well. and, let, let's, let's dig into that, a, a little bit. A little bit. what, what is the second thing going well? how did it impact. 'cause obviously this other thing that you're gonna be bringing up actually made, it, makes it so that you have more room for the previous thing you just talked about, so. [00:23:35] Miles Witt Boyer: And, room is, room is the key, right? okay, so Imagen, You guys have, you guys have created a product here, and this isn't a sales pitch, y'all, listen, listen, hear me out on this. Number one, I'm not getting paid to be on this podcast, so if you, I, and, and full disclosure Imagen is so cool. I genuinely feel like they would allow me to get on the mic right now and say how I feel [00:24:00] regardless of whether or not it was all completely positive. [00:24:03] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:24:04] Miles Witt Boyer: that, that to me is, the reason I'm in this is because the authenticity, I think is the reason that we like to talk to brides and, and grooms about our work. But it's also the reason we like to talk to photographers about our affiliations because I. I only work with companies and brands that I really believe in.and so when we, when we made the switch kicking and screaming, I, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll be, man, I kicked, almost knocked my blue light over, when I made [00:24:30] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: do it. We we're twinning over here. [00:24:32] Miles Witt Boyer: when I made, when I made the switch to, to using AI editing. Um, I, I did it with the same general mentality I think that most photographers do, which is like, Hey, I'm out of time. Save me time. I. And I realized in a hurry, uh, that the power of using, post-processing like this, an AI processing like this and then then our profile that we've, that we've built Iconic, that's now [00:25:00] on the platform like this is actually not in being more efficient. It's in saving us time for better work. [00:25:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:25:09] Miles Witt Boyer: Um, so lemme break that down. So, so what we do now is we utilize, Imagen in its most complete form, Imagen handles our cooling and they handle all of our color science. and, uh, all using that, that Iconic profile. That's a remarkable process. Like just the fact that that exists. I mean, I, I say this often to people, but like 10 years ago, none of us could even wrap our minds around the fact that that was possible and everybody would've been polarized to it. Every single photographer would have said like, that is cheating. But the interesting thing is that 10 years ago, none of us were using Lightroom presets really either. or if we were, it was like really terrible ones, and now that's considered industry standard. Right? Like it is perfectly [00:26:00] okay for you to have a preset that you use as a color science that you either created for yourself or that you bought off somebody or, or whatever. Like, that's okay. It's perfectly okay. And nobody is polarized to that fact. And so here we are now, we have the next evolution of that, like kind of a natural evolution of that is a much smarter, much more intuitive way to apply your color science. Uh, and so we, we. Walk all the way through that process with Imagen. But then eventually, and here's the greatest part about working with, Imagen, eventually those photos end up back in Lightroom and all of a sudden they're my problem again. They're no longer Imagen's problem. Now, I know that you guys have created some really cool workflows that allow you to go like direct to Pic-Time. Um, [00:26:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm. [00:26:43] Miles Witt Boyer: that's awesome, but that's not how we use it. [00:26:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. [00:26:46] Miles Witt Boyer: So eventually the work has to be my problem because it's my work. Now I have, you know, 1500 files or 2000 files that are cold and edited and beautiful, and they have our [00:27:00] color science apply, but they're sitting back in Lightroom and now I get to look at it and say, all the time that I had allocated to edit this work is still there. So now how am I gonna edit this work? [00:27:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. [00:27:14] Miles Witt Boyer: Instead of playing the game that most of the industry has played for years, which is literally just like control C, control V, control C, control V, right? Instead of playing the copy paste game on your work, now I get to look at it and say like, Hey, I have time here to get rid of those outlets, those light switches, those stray hairs. I have time to mask things. To bring things forward and clean up skin and, and I have time to do that in, in mass, instead of it being like the one image that I'm gonna put on my Instagram. Like, I have time to do that. And, and the way that has played out in a, like in its in its end game, I guess right now in our work is now I'm able to say to our clients, every photo that you see on our website and every [00:28:00] photo that you see on our Instagram, were not edited specifically with marketing involved. were just final edits. That is how our work is delivered. So when you go to our Instagram, every single shot that's on the Instagram profile is a photo that was delivered to a bride. And all of her other photos look like that too. [00:28:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right, Right, [00:28:21] Miles Witt Boyer: and that to me is like a level of authenticity and like, just straightforwardness that only happens now that we have the time to be so refined. so yeah. Does that answer your question a little bit? I. [00:28:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah. And a, a real world, um, example of this before we hit record, we were talking about the, the, the photowalk in New York and I.all the photos you ran through Imagine, but then you had to do some final edits on them. Um, and because it was New York City, you had a problem [00:28:49] Miles Witt Boyer: Yeah. [00:28:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: that you had the time now to, to handle. And again, for listeners, this was not just a photowalk, this was a real couple of, of miles. Right. [00:29:00] So it was like he still had to deliver, not [00:29:02] Miles Witt Boyer: It's important. It's important. And they're not married yet. Like it's important that these two people see them, see confidence in themselves in this frame because it, they could have walked away from this either what happened, and thank God this happened. They walked away even more excited for their upcoming wedding, but they could have easily walked away and been like, oh my gosh, what have we done? [00:29:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: right. [00:29:22] Miles Witt Boyer: You know, like this guy has no idea what he's doing. So, so yeah, we're in a city with 9 million people, and we're shooting at, uh, what time do we meet? Five 30. [00:29:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Five Yeah. something like that. Something like that. [00:29:33] Miles Witt Boyer: anybody that's familiar with New York at all, we are in Tribeca at five 30, in the middle of the week. You know, like we, we just threw ourselves into walking rush hour, uh, on the High Line and. So the edits that had to happen, were how do we clean up the people? Like there are in, in one specific photo. actually the one, the, the one that the mall cop yelled at me about, [00:30:00] there's probably just crossing the crosswalk behind them. I bet there's probably 75 people back there. And now before you get mad at me and say, that could have been so cool. I also included those shots as well. Like there are shots where they feel like they're in the middle of a bustling city and I'm doing shutter drag and there's some really cool stuff around it, [00:30:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It, It, is always fun when your subjects are still, and you see movement in the background. So I, I can see the, the excitement in that. [00:30:26] Miles Witt Boyer: Did you see, did you see the shots I did of that with, uh, the, uh, the cabs or, yeah, we dragged it eighth of a second and let the cabs go blurry behind them. So cool there. But, but that wasn't the vision for some of these shots, like them walking down the stairs into the High Line. I just wanted this to feel like this was their city. I. [00:30:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. [00:30:43] Miles Witt Boyer: and so the other people, to be quite honest, are in the way of that, of that goal. And because I was able to handle color science quickly and effectively and consistently, I got to spend that extra time going in there and [00:31:00] saying, you know, like, how do we, and, and again, cas even two years ago, we would've had to clone all of that out. It would've been a nightmare. It would've been an absolute nightmare, but now we can, you know, like do a really crappy lasso and ai, things like that out, and it's like people just disappear. It's remarkable. What is happening in our, in our industry right now is, is absolutely insane. And, uh, and man, I, I just, I know one thing. If you are not at the forefront of it, if you're not learning it as it comes out.and that's the key to working with Imagen for me, is there is nobody even close to this far out ahead of things. So, but if you're not at the forefront of it, you're, you don't, you're not gonna like to hear this guys, but you're getting left behind. [00:31:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, that, that's the thing is it's AI is not what's gonna put people outta business. It's people who don't adopt the ai. It's gonna put themselves outta business. That's, [00:31:56] Miles Witt Boyer: Dude, Scott. So I, I worked for a photographer, in high [00:32:00] school, that I can remember when he bought the, his first digital camera.this dates me for sure, but we shot, medium formats, four by five film and, and hostel blog, medium format stuff. And he actually had an eight by 10 camera too, which was super cool. But. When he bought his first digital camera, I'm sure it was probably like, you know, 1.3 megapixels or something like that. And he dropped probably 10 grand on the thing. I remember the conversation that he had with me where he said, this will never take off like this. It, it won't happen. And there was an entire generation of photographers that just disappeared because they were wrong and they waited too long to adapt and, and. Those of us that went ahead and said like, okay, you know, yeah, three megapixels is pretty crappy, but let's try it. You know? We learned it and we understood how it worked and, and then we got those DSLRs and then the mirrorless systems came out and all of a sudden it wasn't like this massive [00:33:00] jump in learning curve. It was like, oh my gosh, hold on. I don't, I don't have to now look through the, the viewfinder anymore. I can actually shoot live, which means I can talk to people more fluently and more easily. I can compose. You know, like, more creatively and, and faster, frankly. And those adaptations have happened so easily and, uh, and man. If you're not out ahead of it, like, dude, I just feel so bad for the photographers that are, that are still trying to create art. Um, you'll hear me say this on, on a lot of different interviews, but I, I'm a huge believer that the best art, which is what we are, you guys, like, we have to, we have to live in that. We have to call ourselves artists or this industry is absolutely screwed, but the best art comes from friction. Like, you have to experience pain. You have to deal with things that are frustrating or, or problems or too many people walking through the street in New York. Like you have to deal with that stuff to find art, but you don't have to be a masochist, like you don't have to make this hard on yourself just for the [00:34:00] sake of doing it. So, yeah, man. The, the post-processing game now has like, it's completely pivoted the way that we handle. Again, all of our work, it's allowed me more time to spend with my clients on the upfront. I know you mentioned Jared a few minutes, minutes ago, but he's, he's, again, he's another extension of that. Right? So I handle all of the culling, all the color science, and then the reverse cuing, which is a new step on our workflow that didn't used to exist.and then. I pass the hard edits off to Jared, and so while I'm prepping the next clients for their events, he's making sure that the last clients have their photos and, and we're, you know, we're working side by side like that all the time, so. [00:34:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And, and also because Jared does video, soon enough. Imagen's video app is going to be another layer, right? 'cause now we're gonna have the ability for, at some point Iconic will be a video profile for Jared to be able to use in all of, you know, your, your, your wedding videos. and you'll [00:35:00] have that consistency in the brand. It's gonna be a beautiful thing [00:35:03] Miles Witt Boyer: it is. I mean, it is. It's a remarkable thing. [00:35:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Um, so a lot of very exciting times. Uh, again, like. Adopt ai, right? Whether it's Imagen or whether you're just adopting, the, the, the features that Adobe's adding into Lightroom, into Photoshop, et cetera, for making your edit process faster, it's just like, it's a win-win to, um, for for everybody involved, right? [00:35:30] Miles Witt Boyer: Dude, can I tell you a cool, can I, can I tell you like a, a, a, a cool thing that I did a few weeks ago? [00:35:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. [00:35:36] Miles Witt Boyer: so I. I, I saw this dumb Instagram reel that was talking about how, like, you know, most of us are still using ai, like, like, uh, like smart Google, right? And then there are fringe humans that are making their, their, you know, billions already on ai. And like, how is it that they're doing that and they're, it's that they're understanding some of the capabilities. And so I just, I felt like I needed to know. I was just curious. [00:36:00] So, okay, Scott, you gotta try this. Later. So I got in, I have trained chat GPT pretty well around my brand. like it understands my voice, understands my, you know, my vision, where I'm headed, what I want the company to convey, et cetera, et cetera. I still don't let it write copy for me and not re edit that copy. because it, I, I feel like I can spot AI copy very well, but what I haven't done is allow it to teach me things. I'm always trying to teach it things. And, uh, and so I got on a couple of weeks ago and I said like, okay, now knowing everything that you know about Miles with Boyer, what are the 10 must try AI processes that you would suggest? And it was remarkable the things that it spit back out to me. and, uh, man, I, I think that we just, we've just gotta get smart into understanding that like. The future of of tech is, is adjusting at like light [00:37:00] speed right now. And if it makes us better humans, like if it allows us to have better relationships and stronger connections and allows us to be more connected to our art, how could that possibly be, be a negative thing? So [00:37:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: one of my favorite, uh, related to that, one of my favorite things that not enough people are doing is if you screenshot a landing page that's important to your website. And you throw into Gemini, you throw into chat GPT, and you ask it. as a, as an expert in SEO, et cetera, what would, what are, you know, critique this landing page? What are some improvements you would make for SEO purposes? If you think about it, these LLMs, these, um, language models, right? These, this AI is designed to give you answers, right? it's it's a search engine in, in its own right. Um, in fact, like Gemini is baked into Google at this point. Chachi PD is baked into Bing at this point. Um,and iPhones. Um, so [00:38:00] it's gonna tell you what you need to do to your page specific for its search, right? Listen to its advice. You don't have to do it word for word, right? But listen to his advice. It's gonna tell you what it wants you to do to to rank better for its for its ai. So I, I just love like those like hacks in, you know, for lack of better word, like just ways to use it that not, not enough people are using it [00:38:27] Miles Witt Boyer: Man, I love these like nerdy talks. Scott. I'm always on. I don't know if you've ever heard, I'm always on podcasts. Everybody always wants to talk to me about my feelings, man. I'm like, I'm, I guess I'm always the guy that's like, you know, Hey Miles, get, let's get, let's get deep. Let's get like super meta here and, and. Honestly, every once in a while it's really nice to just talk nerdy because the, the, the cool stuff that's going on here is, I think you can boil it down by simply saying like, if, if your goal as a business owner, as a creative, as an [00:39:00] artist is to do the minimum. Right. Then go ahead and just replicate, like go ahead and, and, and take out the, the Squarespace, you know, website and throw some photos in a template and, and, uh, you know, grab yourself a, a pick time account and deliver your photos with like the suggested, rates for things and like. All of these companies now, and that's not a knock actually on either of them. I use Squarespace and I'm a pick time ambassador, like, but all of these companies have built processes to help you get started. But I think the thing is that so many of us just move beyond that process and start going to the next process without ever auditing all the things, all the ways that we show up. And, I, like I, I've said this, uh, in a handful of different trainings, but. I'm extremely picky about the way clothes fit, like super picky about the way clothes fit. [00:40:00] And so somebody could just hand me a T-shirt and I can put on a t-shirt and I can walk out the door. But the truth of the matter is that's just not at all who I am. I'm going to put on that t-shirt, and if I don't like the way that T-shirt fits, then I'm gonna go find another T-shirt and. That's not a vain thing. It's just a, there's a level of confidence to when I like the way something fits and when I like the way something looks, I feel like I can show up better in the world. And most of us are, are just throwing on a t-shirt and walking out the door and not realizing like we, not only are we all wearing the same t-shirt, but we all look like crap. You know, and so it's usually just like a little bit of extra effort, just like a slight, a slight adjustment in some things. And, uh, and you'll show up and, and be really proud of who you are. And, and probably the, the coolest, I don't know, evolution of that for me is then when, when I look back through, like scroll through Instagram, I'm a big believer in not deleting these people that have like, you know, 50,000 followers and 11 [00:41:00] posts crack me up. [00:41:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:41:01] Miles Witt Boyer: have thousands, I think I have like close to 4,000 posts on Instagram. And the reason I do that is 'cause I love to scroll back through and see the evolution of my work. Like, I love to be able to see and say, gosh, I used to suck.but now I'm really proud of my work and what was happening. Like, what was it that was happening there in that transition in my life where all of a sudden that work starts to look really good? What, what did I do there? How do I need to lean in on that stuff? And so much of it. These days for me, work that I'm really proud of is clients that are really happy to have us there and then a post-process that is so consistent, so you're never seeing me in like a weird emo mood in my editing. You know, like Imagen Handles handles. My mood swings for me. [00:41:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, [00:41:46] Miles Witt Boyer: a voice note for you. Save that one. [00:41:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: that is definitely an advantage of AI is it does not care about your emotion. It's gonna do the same way, excuse me. No matter, no matter what is going on in your life at that [00:42:00] moment, it will always [00:42:01] Miles Witt Boyer: edit consistent, consistently in coal, consistently, et cetera. Yeah. [00:42:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Miles, we're, we're running low on time and I wanna see if we can briefly touch on the last thing, which is an area in your workflow that you're maybe struggling with, maybe not a, not a hundred percent happy with, but you're working on improving. and if we can briefly touch, talk about that. I'd love, I'd love to to hear it. [00:42:24] Miles Witt Boyer: Definitely. Well, I think this is, I hope this is something that like connects with everybody quickly. I am, it's a constant opportunity, a constant growth thing in my mind to further diversify where my clients are coming from. Um, I think we're so quick in our industry right now to like niche down, niche down, niche down, which I think is really dangerous. That's probably another episode, but I think it's really dangerous to niche too quickly. Um, one, because you end up, you end up putting yourself in a corner and your work hasn't even developed yet. A lot of photographers I see, they're like, what? All we shoot is elopements. I'm like, that's 'cause you've never shot a [00:43:00] wedding. you know, but anyway, I, we, we, we get so tight that we end up neglecting a lot of cool opportunity for really great art.but in our marketing we fall into a, a line of like. it's working, so don't break it. And where I struggle, frankly, is in the fact that we always have more work than we need. Like I, it has been years since I've. Since I've felt that like tension of like, man, I wish I had more inquiries. It's been years. And then at the same time, I can look back through my inquiries and be like, wow, you know, they are, they're coming from the same handful of wedding planners, or they're coming from like the same venues or like, Instagram is a huge, a huge, client pool for us. And when that happens, I'm immediately hit with the insecurity of like, well, what if my Instagram got hacked? Like, what if I lost Instagram [00:44:00] tomorrow? what would I do in that scenario? Or what if this specific wedding planner decides that she's done, she's, she's tired of it, or, or she BILDs a relationship with a new photographer that she loves, or, or whatever. It doesn't matter. But like, what happens if 30% of my, my client, well dries up because I haven't diversified enough? And so that's on my mind a lot. It's, it's a, it's an interesting thing to not need more clients, but to want more. Revenue streams. and, and to be honest, it's, it's one of the reasons as well that we went ahead and put our, put the Iconic profile actually on the, on the, on the store with you guys is, is knowing that at this point in my career, I. I don't just need more and more and more. We've got, the income is fine, the money is fine. We're happy as can be. And, and I'm not, I hope I lead off with this impression. I'm not super greedy with that stuff. Like I want the industry to win.but I'm, I'm keenly aware [00:45:00] that, at any given moment, uh, a random, you know, pandemic can pop up in a third of the industry hemorrhages. [00:45:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. [00:45:10] Miles Witt Boyer: I. And, uh, and we were very blessed the last time that happened to not be hyper affected, but I, I wanna make sure that we're, we're always out ahead of it the next time. [00:45:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. And it does happen that that social like. There was a moment where TikTok was gone. Right? And for some photographers, that's their Instagram, right? That's, that's their social lead driver. and if that happened to Instagram, there's a good chance that's happening to Facebook as well. and WhatsApp and anything else that's, you know, sort of connected to the meta sphere. so there's a risk. Social media is, is hard. To, to, give it, its all right for, as like the only thing you have to diversify where you're, where you're aiming for or aim, aiming to gather leads from. at the same time, the [00:46:00] idea of diversifying the, the revenue sources is another great, great, uh, great advice for a lot of photographers who right now are only focusing on the clients. There, there's many ways where you can make money. As a photographer, including doing something as simple as stock photography for certain things, right? Maybe not be the most exciting thing in the world, but there is always a need for stock photography, [00:46:24] Miles Witt Boyer: pretty cool, man. I had a, uh. A girl that I went to college with that was very early on the iStock photo train very early, and she has a couple of photos that she's taken over the years, and I'm talking a couple, like less than 10 photos. I think there's a photo of a Bible with like a picture frame behind it, that she's made hundreds of thousands of dollars on that photo. you know, I mean, I, again, I think. So many of us, we, we just sort of follow the exact same flow, right? Like shoot babies, then shoot seniors, then shoot families, [00:47:00] then shoot weddings, and then be an educator and. Guys, that that's not actually a real successful business model. It, it truly isn't. And you've seen it work for a handful of people, but those people are actually the exception, not the rule. I think that there's so much more to be said for like, serving people well, and then developing your product really well, developing your, you know, what your, what your value is, and then finding ways to get that product into different people's hands. And, uh, man, that's just like a, a cool way to live. And also, it, it allows us to be artists for as long as possible, which I think is really special. Um, it seems as though I'm kind of,in a, in an odd transition in my life where kicking and screaming a touch. I'm, I'm starting to educate more. I've got more conferences, I've got more sponsorships, I've got more things happening, and. The one thing that is most on my mind right now is protect [00:48:00] the work. Like allow the value of what I do to only grow. I. Um, and, uh, man, that's, I think that's just great advice, but also I think it's important for all of us to hear photographers that we look up to be real in those moments and say like, I'm still turning out work. Every, every shoot I'm turning out work where I'm sitting back and saying, what was I thinking? Like what a stupid picture, you know, um, or how was I influenced by. You know, by so-and-so's work, you know, like why am I so insecure about myself that I'm trying to mimic or copy them? So, dude, you got me in my fields. [00:48:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Anyway, we did it no matter what.go, trying to talk techie, and you're getting all feely. [00:48:42] Miles Witt Boyer: so. But that stuff's cool. Scott and I, and, and, and I, I guess as like, as we, I don't know, kind of wrap up or whatever, I think, I think my advice for photographers would be like, try and stitch those three things together. It's, it is working, it don't, please don't emulate us. My gosh, there's so, so much [00:49:00] better examples out there. But like what we basically just said in one episode. Actually relatively unintentionally is like clean up the way you treat people before they shoot you or before you shoot them and before they even hire you. Just clean up the way you show up for them and then clean up the way you produce for them after they hire you, and then invest in new ways for people to find you so that they will hire you. [00:49:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. [00:49:27] Miles Witt Boyer: like, come on. and if you can connect all of those things with Imagen and then maybe buy my Iconic profile in the process, that'd be great. [00:49:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Plugged [00:49:37] Miles Witt Boyer: That was subtle. I slid that in there. [00:49:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. So we're gonna link to the Iconic profile in the show notes. Of course. miles, if you can share, for those who don't know who you are, I've never seen you work. Where can, uh, listeners learn more about you, see your Iconic photography and all that fun stuff? [00:49:54] Miles Witt Boyer: Yeah. Cool. well, so yeah,I am, uh, @MilesWittBoyer on Instagram, two T's [00:50:00] no h in Witt. And, and all of the work that is on there is, is an example of what was poured into the Iconic profile. I think after it's all said and done, we ran, I think roughly 18,000 photos into the initial BILD for that. And then since then, gosh, we've gotta be pushing another 15,000 through it. and the goal is just like, a wild amount of, really consistent, really true to life color. things that don't feel too punchy or too bold, but also don't feel too filmic and too trendy. And so, yeah, that's, uh, that's on the profile shop. I'm really excited, those, the people that are seeing that are, are giving us some really cool reviews and that actually leads back to you guys. So if you want to drop me a DM on, uh, on, on Instagram at any point, DM me. and I'll get you my email address. If you wanna send me a couple raw files, I'm super happy to send you over what that would look like on your, on your profile. As well as just answer questions. People DM me perpetually [00:51:00] about how we're using, Imagen and, and where we're gonna show up next and what the next workshops are that we're doing. And, and all of that stuff. We've got exciting things coming around the corner with that. At, at any given moment, I'm just waiting for Noella to tell me what my life, let's call it, let's call it what it is, to tell me what my life actually looks like. She's like everybody, all of the ambassadors' fairy godmothers. If I learned anything in New York, it's the fact that I wondered how she did all this for me. And the reality is she does it for all of us. And [00:51:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: For, yeah. There's a lot of people. She's, [00:51:29] Miles Witt Boyer: It is wild, Scott. So anyway, yeah, dude, I, uh, I, I'm just excited to meet people and every time we do one of these, if I, if I end up making one new friend out of it, it's, it's totally worth the investment. So, [00:51:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Miles, always, always a pleasure hanging. Always a pleasure chatting. love hearing all the, all the, all the advice and all the nuggets and behind the scenes that you're sharing with all the listeners. I'm sureThey're ending this episode with, uh, with some ideas that they have to be, they have [00:51:57] Miles Witt Boyer: I hope so. I hope so. [00:51:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: um, [00:52:00] really [00:52:00] Miles Witt Boyer: I love it a lot. Dude. Thank you for, thank you for being like a, I don't use this word lightly, seriously, like for championing this industry. Like you guys, your voice right now is, is uh, it's critical. and people are leaning on, on you guys to say it's okay to, to adapt to new tech. [00:52:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm. [00:52:19] Miles Witt Boyer: and, uh, man, that's a lot of pressure and you're, and you're the public face of it. So, and also dude, over in the Facebook group, can we just briefly, like, I'll take 30 seconds to, can I, can I brag on how well you manage that?that's what, there's like 17,000 people in there or something like that. [00:52:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. Yep. [00:52:37] Miles Witt Boyer: so that's so cool that, that there is a place that exists where people can just show up and connect and, and we all have this one thing in common. And it doesn't matter if it's, you know, when I say we, like, it doesn't matter if it's myself and John Branch and Fer and. Taylor and, you know, Sam Hurd it doesn't [00:53:00] matter if it's those guys or if it's like, you know, Joe Schmo in Iowa. Like we all have the same thing in common. It's really cool. You guys have created a level playing field where all of us can connect and, and share ideas and advice and tricks and, that's, that's pretty special. So, [00:53:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And it's not just wedding photographers. We've got people photographing dogs and horses and concerts and newborn, you, I mean, it, that's the diversity in the Imagen community is something I'm very proud of. and it keeps growing every day and it's, it's a, it's a blast. [00:53:32] Miles Witt Boyer: Yeah, it's really, really cool. The, the concert photographers that show up in there blow my mind. I'm like, I'm so jealous of that. But anyway, so Cool man. Well, thanks for being awesome. the great thing, can I, here's, here's the coolest plug ever. In the last 57 minutes that we've been recording, I have culled and edited an an entire wedding. [00:53:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's fun. [00:53:54] Miles Witt Boyer: It's true story man. I started it right before we started recording, so I should have screen, I should have screenshot the whole thing, [00:54:00] so [00:54:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That would've been hilarious if we had a. If we had a side by side of the, uh, the recording of, [00:54:06] Miles Witt Boyer: Yep. Miles is editing right now. Yeah, it's true. So cool. ​