What Every Destination Photographer Needs to Hear Right Now with Ana Pastoria

62 === [00:00:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Hello Ana. [00:00:15] Ana Pastoria: Hello. [00:00:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~well, so I have some good news before we dive in. ~Um,~ [00:00:20] Ana Pastoria: Okay. [00:00:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: besides from Yotam, Yoav and Ron, you're my first coworker to be on the show. [00:00:29] Ana Pastoria: Oh my God, [00:00:30] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's kind of cool. That's kind [00:00:31] Ana Pastoria: it's, [00:00:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~uh, we've been trying to do this for a while and, uh, so I'm glad that we're making it happen. ~Um,~ [00:00:37] Ana Pastoria: My health was incorporating, but [00:00:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: well, both of us. [00:00:42] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. Then, then your health was incorporating, so you know, you know, [00:00:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:00:46] Ana Pastoria: being old. [00:00:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. Yeah, it does. ~Um, ~so I want, I want to get right into this. ~Um. ~You [00:00:53] Ana Pastoria: what we're talking about. [00:00:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Well I know what we're talking about, but [00:00:57] Ana Pastoria: Oh, yeah. [00:00:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: talking about. ~Um, ~ [00:00:58] Ana's Journey with Imagen --- [00:00:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so [00:01:00] for those who don't know who you are,~ um,~ for those who, of course we're gonna link to who you are and stuff like that in the show notes, but those who are listening, who want a quick summary of who you are, what you do for Imagen, but also for,~ um,~ your photography. Give us that summary. [00:01:19] Ana Pastoria: Okay, so for Imagen I am a partnership manager. Uh, I have been at Imagen Forever. It's been over three years. ~Um, ~I found, Imagen. Because I was a user and because it saved my career, because I am also a destination international wedding photographer. I shoot weddings all over the world, which makes me travel way too much. And ~um. ~Not have time for my family when I get back home. So thanks to Imagen, I now have time to be with my family, to nap, to be with my cute dogs and to, [00:02:00] you know, have a life. So, ~um, ~I fell in love with Imagen and I. I have so much more free time now that I decided that I wanted to give back to the community and to Imagen. And then I started working at Imagen, and it's very fun and very cool to be able to actually work in a place where I believe that the product is literally the best and. The company is so good and everything is so, so cool that it's, it almost does not feel like a job because I get to talk to people and help them have a better, uh, work life balance, and that is just priceless. [00:02:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. ~Um, ~ [00:02:43] Waffle House Adventures --- [00:02:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: off the top of your head, how many pho, how many different waffle houses have you had photo sessions at? [00:02:52] Ana Pastoria: Two. [00:02:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Just two. [00:02:54] Ana Pastoria: Just two. [00:02:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: but you've, you've enjoyed the meals at many more? [00:02:58] Ana Pastoria: Yes. I've [00:03:00] enjoyed the meals at many more because Waffle House is my favorite. I know people are going to listen to this and think like, one, what is Waffle House? If they are not in America, if they're not, please go to America. And if you go, go to Waffle House or. If you go to America, go to Waffle House, not please go to America because right now, sorry, not getting into politics, but it's not, uh, ideal. ~Um, ~anyways, uh, waffle House waffles all day breakfast, greasy bacon. It's like, seriously, I should be sponsored by them. I just love Waffle House so much. [00:03:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: sponsored by Waffle House, [00:03:36] Ana Pastoria: No, but I should be, I should be like Waffle Houses. I'm, I'm their biggest fan. I'm just, every time I travel somewhere in America, I'm like, let me see if there's a Waffle House nearby. [00:03:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Waffle [00:03:51] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. And if it's like an hour away, it's doable [00:03:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: in my, my drive last month down to North Carolina, which was a seven hour drive, if we [00:04:00] didn't stop, but we stopped, [00:04:01] Ana Pastoria: at waffle. [00:04:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: like four waffle houses on that drive. [00:04:05] Ana Pastoria: And you just remember me every time you see one, right? [00:04:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It just, oh, Anna, [00:04:09] Ana Pastoria: Yes. Yeah. I should be an ambassador for Waffle House. I don't get it like Waffle House. If you are listening to this, just, [00:04:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. [00:04:17] Ana Pastoria: send me bacon [00:04:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:04:19] Ana Pastoria: and waffle. [00:04:20] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Just sent me bacon. ~Um, ~okay. [00:04:22] Destination Wedding Photography Workflow --- [00:04:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So, so as a destination,~ um,~ photographer,~ um,~ besides from Imagen, 'cause we know, Imagen change your life, change your business, right? It's, it's done a lot for you for me and for many others [00:04:37] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:04:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: for Imagen, what is one thing in your, in your workflow overall between, from like from behind the camera to delivery, what is one part of your workflow that's been going well as a destination Wedding photographer? [00:04:51] Ana Pastoria: ~Um, ~sorry, this is tricky one. ~Um, ~the workflow, right. Backing up. [00:04:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Well, [00:04:58] Ana Pastoria: I really love backups. [00:05:00] Backups are like life. I'm obsessed with backups. [00:05:03] The Importance of Backups --- [00:05:17] Ana Pastoria: Now I also back up at Imagen, but other than that, I have external drives that I back up to and then that I just insert my SD card in and that backup automatically I back up. Yeah. [00:05:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: traveling with you. [00:05:18] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. So I travel with an external drive. Then I have one external drive at my mom's so that if my house burns down, I have an external drive there. And I also have everything in the cloud. And I also have, I only delete the SD cards after I deliver everything. So I have a gazillion SD cards, uh, and I have little, ~um. ~Drawers for SD cards with the names of the couples. And so that is one part of my workflow that I really, uh, enjoy, is when I deliver everything I get to have new SD cards because I've been just sitting there for a while. [00:05:58] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~I will say, so you, [00:06:00] you shoot Fuji,~ um,~ I shoot Nikon and right now Nikon made the decision to use CF Express cards. ~Um,~ [00:06:07] Ana Pastoria: And they're so good. [00:06:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: they're more expensive than SD cards, unfortunately. I mean, I, secondary card is the SD card. ~Um, ~I could just use the SD card and have one memory card, but like for me, in my workflow, I couldn't do like a memory card per client and just like use it as storage because would just get so expensive. ~Um,~ [00:06:29] Ana Pastoria: Uh, no, I couldn't because, because I, I fear that cards get corrupted. They do. It happens. Uh, so I could never shoot on one slot. I have to have slots and I have to have backup at the time I'm shooting. [00:06:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:06:50] Ana Pastoria: So, but the CF are so much better. They're super quick and. [00:06:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. And they're actually less prone to corruption as [00:06:59] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:06:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: like the way that [00:07:00] they're made. For some reason. They're, they're,~ um,~ they're, they're more durable than SD cards. They're, they're, you know, [00:07:05] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:07:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: to corrupt or fail, whatever. ~Um, ~I do wanna mention something that just happened to me. That I think on the topic of backups is worth bringing up here on the podcast. And shared this in the Imagen Community last night. ~Um, ~we're recording this early May,~ um,~ but, and I'll link to this post in the community in the show notes as well. ~Um, ~was having, so I have a, I use a Mac Studio as my main computer at home. ~Um, ~and for the past week I've been seeing my storage get used up and used up and used up, and I'm like, where is this coming from? We're looking in the system preferences under storage, terabytes just of system data, right? That's, and that's all it's classified in under the storage configuration, whatever,~ um,~ under system preferences. And I couldn't figure it out. And I use clean my Mac,~ um,~ the, that app in order to like clean [00:08:00] caches and stuff like that. It didn't clear out enough. And I'm like, what, where is this? It's literally 1.2 terabytes. Where's it coming from? And I remember that I owned Daisy disc, which is a hard drive, SSD drive,~ um,~ like mapping app that visualizes what's exactly what is using storage, [00:08:20] Ana Pastoria: Okay. [00:08:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~um, ~with like a heat map and stuff like that. And then you can drill into each folder to figure out what inside of this folder, whatever turns out. It was Backblaze. ~Um, ~Backblaze I've been using for, the day it came out almost 20 years at this point. I've been using Backblaze. I don't know how old they are, but long, long, long, long time. so you're talking terabytes and terabytes of, of data that's backed up from my system and all my externals to Backblaze. ~Um, ~and it's one part of my backup workflow. And there was an update last week of the Backblaze app, and I'm like, there's a [00:09:00] bug in this update and it's using up my storage. My only option was uninstall backblaze. [00:09:07] Ana Pastoria: Oh. [00:09:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So I did it, all my storage came back, and when I reinstall Backblaze, it started from scratch. I could, it wouldn't let me inherit state. So I have to reback every, [00:09:22] Ana Pastoria: Exactly. That's what I was going to ask. [00:09:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, so it's not the end of the world. 'cause like I still have all my stuff right now,~ um,~ like in the backblaze back in, in their dashboard, it shows my shows two Mac studios. I can still recover from the other if I had to, but it, [00:09:43] Ana Pastoria: It's not ideal. [00:09:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it's not ideal. ~Um, ~and uh, you know, it just goes to show like never rely on one backup source. [00:09:52] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:09:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: have redundancy, whether it's cloud versus physical versus two clouds versus three physicals, whatever it is. [00:09:59] Ana Pastoria: [00:10:00] Oh yeah. [00:10:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~and Imagen also has a blog article on this that I, that I wrote a long time ago,~ um,~ about backups and my workflow and stuff like that. So also link to that in the,~ um,~ in the show notes for this. So, [00:10:11] Ana Pastoria: Love backups. [00:10:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yep. ~Um, ~ [00:10:15] Client Communication and Workflow Consistency --- [00:10:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: is there any other part of your. ~Um, ~of your workflow that that's been working really well for you, that you've been like very happy with,~ um,~ that you wouldn't change a thing? [00:10:29] Ana Pastoria: I don't think I would change a thing at my overall workflow. To be honest,~ um,~ I think the whole thing is pretty much how I wanted after 16 years. ~Um, ~I think there's a few things that,~ um,~ I do a bit differently, uh, from, from, ~um, ~most of my colleagues at least. ~Um, ~but that has more to do with client interaction,~ um,~ than. What you would call like the physical workflow. Uh, [00:11:00] it's more a mentality kind of thing. ~Um, ~because I,~ um, ~I'm one of those people that's as you know, always on. ~Um, ~so if it's two o'clock in the morning and someone messages me, I will reply if I'm awake. ~Um, ~and. Yes, as you know, uh, I will even sing if I'm, uh, awake and you are, uh, playing, you know, that has happened. ~Um, ~but yeah, the thing is, for me it is very important to be very consistent and very,~ um,~ you in everything you do, and especially in your job, right? Because that's something that you need to be very good at. Otherwise you won't succeed. This is a overly saturated industry, and if you are, if you don't have your processes in place and you're just figuring things out, something may fail at some point. And so for me, it's very important to, to reach a place where I'm [00:12:00] comfortable and ~um, ~and I feel like I'm doing my best. ~Um, ~I know that. My health hasn't been always great. Sometimes I did fail. Uh, my clients always in communication with them. Everyone knows all the time what to expect and expect things happen. ~Um, ~family members die. We are human beings. Uh, but that is part of my flow. So, uh. Being very communicative with my clients, letting them always keep their expectations in sync, knowing, uh, having them know if any mishaps happen. Uh, always, never having a mishap with storage, but if anything else happens, I need them to know so that they're prepared. If something gets like a week behind or because it can happen, it doesn't often, but it can. ~Um. ~Especially in video that we also do, [00:13:00] uh, that, that takes forever. Still, I'm hoping that Imagen video comes through change that [00:13:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, and, and it's worth mentioning, your husband also does, is [00:13:10] Ana Pastoria: Yes, my husband does video and, and I try to help him because my photos get delivered like this and then the videotapes forever and, and that just. [00:13:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: much longer, [00:13:24] Ana Pastoria: Much, much longer, much, much longer. [00:13:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: not for, not, hopefully not for [00:13:29] Ana Pastoria: Oh yeah. Hopefully not for much longer. ~Um, ~Imagen as, uh, I've been testing it and it has been working great. So, ~um, ~I'm just excited for what's to come, but I think it's very important to, to be very transparent and very in sync with your clients and also to get the kind of clients that you know. Like you and that you can connect with and that will feel empathetic towards you when something happens and not the kind of clients that will [00:14:00] say, oh, I don't care if your grandfather died. You have to come shoot my engagement shoot this weekend, because that literally happened to me once and it wasn't cool. [00:14:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~there was two jobs that I've had, one recent one almost 10 years ago where I wasn't sure if I could do it because of things going on. One was literally last week I had pneumonia. [00:14:28] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:14:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Speaking of health and that so this past Saturday, I had a proposal to photograph and,~ um,~ I mean, even you were te texting me, you need to rest. [00:14:41] Ana Pastoria: Yes. Just go back to. [00:14:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, so I, I mean, I spent the day not exerting my body in any way. Like, I didn't work out at all. I just laid in bed or I sat in a chair and,~ um,~ I worked, but I, I took it easy. Right? ~Um, ~and. Got healthy enough that I was able by Saturday to do the [00:15:00] proposal. [00:15:00] Ana Pastoria: Okay. [00:15:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I coughed. They, I even told them ahead of time. I told the client, I didn't tell the person that was being surprised [00:15:08] Ana Pastoria: Yes. [00:15:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: with a proposal, but afterwards she knew. ~Um, ~so like that was one thing where I was like, I can't let my client down. Right? Sure, I could find somebody last minute to take my place, but I'm not letting my client down. ~Um, ~other was. When my daughter was 16 months old and my wife had a major health issue and she's in the hospital and I'm questioning, do I, I had a destination wedding to photograph and I'm questioning, this is a friend of mine that asked me to do this. And I'm like, do I go? My wife's literally in the hospital, like, what do I do? ~Um, ~and you know, we had, we had,~ um,~ had our support system in place. My wife's whole family was there and they're like, go, we got, we got this. Don't worry about it. I was mentally home. physically there in New Orleans photographing this wedding. ~Um, ~and again, the, my, the clients knew, my friends who were [00:15:59] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:15:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:16:00] knew this was happening. ~Um, ~so they understood. [00:16:03] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. But. [00:16:05] Challenges of Destination Weddings --- [00:16:08] Ana Pastoria: Yeah, the, the thing about destination weddings, it's,~ um,~ [00:16:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:16:09] Ana Pastoria: it, it all seems magical and beautiful and bright for anyone who's not used to doing them. And, and when you start doing them, uh, you are. A perspective just switches. ~Um, ~it's completely different to actually know what, ~um, ~what goes into being a destination wedding photographer. Uh, it's not sunshine and rainbows. It's not,~ um,~ it's not easy. It's not fun. ~Um. ~Yes, uh, like you're going to, to a place where you've never been. You don't know how the transport system works, how the people act, uh, how the hotel is going to be, how the wedding is going to be. You can prepare the more you can in advance, and then something can happen. Like I had a wedding in Switzerland once and. The day [00:17:00] before we, we had the pre-wedding shoot because I always want to get to know my clients beforehand. So we had the day before the wedding,~ um,~ and it started to rain and at three o'clock in the morning I woke up with 39.5, uh, degrees Celsius fever are, and I had a full day of wedding to shoot the next day. And I'm, I'm. I'm at a destination. I don't know anyone in Switzerland. Uh, well, I do now, but at the time I didn't, uh, I didn't have a backup. I couldn't say, you know what guys? I'm sick, so let's just call it a day and let's do it this in another day, because she was American, he was Israeli. They both decided to get married in Switzerland. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Okay. 30 point 39.5, and I. Didn't shut the wedding. I had to,~ um,~ I was in Austria when my grandmother died. ~Um, ~had to shoot the wedding, had to push through. [00:18:00] Uh, had a wedding the day after my other grandmother died. ~Um, ~the main character of that wedding was the bride's grandmother who was her best friend. [00:18:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Hmm. [00:18:13] Ana Pastoria: I cried a lot. I. I was crying the whole time. It's ~um, ~it's a thing. You have a life, you are also a human being, but also flight get canceled a lot, get postponed a lot. You have to travel a few days before you travel with a lot of money in gear. You are afraid something's going to happen. You are, uh, I, I even have this. Stupid fear that something's going to happen to me on the plane, uh, or that the plane is going to knock on wood that the plane is going to crash and. Actually up to Imagen. This was a, a very big thing for me. This was,~ um,~ what happens to the [00:19:00] client. They hired me. They paid for my flights, they paid for my fee, they paid for everything. And then I just have an accident and they lose everything because cameras with me, my backup's with me, everything's with me. And the hotel did not have a good enough connection so that I could upload the photos. ~Um. ~But now actually what I do is, and I I talk about this often. I get to the hotel then while I'm asleep, it's uploading to Imagen [00:19:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm. [00:19:27] Ana Pastoria: Because Imagen only needs a little bit of connection to actually be able to upload my dgs and it, it's high quality and uh, if anything happens to me, my husband will be able to, with one click, get all the files. Call them, edit them in my style, deliver to the client, and only then he will let them know that I was in that fatal accident. [00:19:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Which, which will never happen by the way. [00:19:54] Ana Pastoria: Never, never happened, but still, you know, it's [00:19:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: hypothetical [00:19:58] Ana Pastoria: a very [00:20:00] hypothetical, not, not question, but still very nice for me to know that there's. That whole system's in place. And,~ um,~ regardless, uh, it, it's everything's safe and that that gives me a great peace of mind and allows me to actually sleep as soon as I enter the plane and wake up when it lands. [00:20:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Sometimes I can see up on a plane. ~Um, ~ [00:20:27] Workflow Improvements and Social Media Aspirations --- [00:20:27] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so let's shift gears a little bit. ~Um, ~what in your workflow is not a hundred percent where you want it to be? you're working on it, something that, you know, needs some tweaking. You're just either trying to find the time to do it or you've been procrastinating and just haven't, you know, spent the time to do it. ~Um, ~any part of your workflow from start to finish,~ um,~ what needs, [00:20:55] Ana Pastoria: there's a non-existent part that I would love to have. Yes. [00:21:00] So everything I do, I love. I wouldn't change it. I would like to add something [00:21:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. [00:21:08] Ana Pastoria: that is social media. I would love to. Like, I would love to post, I would love to blog. I would love to, uh, update my website. Uh, fact is I don't need it. I am, I'm very comfortably, fully booked. I. Always, and I rely on word of mouth for my business and I'm very happy with it. But still, wouldn't it be a great massage to my ego to actually have Instagram followers? [00:21:41] Struggles with Consistent Posting --- [00:21:41] Ana Pastoria: Yes, it would. Wouldn't it be great for people to actually be able to see my work online? Yes, it would. ~Um, ~last year I did four posts. One of them was saying, this year I'm going to post more. Yeah, right. [00:21:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Gotta love that. [00:21:59] Ana Pastoria: [00:22:00] This year, I think I made one post. That was when I said, you know what guys? I decided I'm going to blog. [00:22:08] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And then you [00:22:08] Ana Pastoria: This always happens in January, by the way. It's, you know, you get that new year, feel that you're going to do stuff, then you don't. [00:22:16] Workflow After Client Delivery --- [00:22:16] Ana Pastoria: So my, my workflow in the area of what happens after I deliver to the clients. It's in existence. What happens is everything's backed up, everything is delivered. The clients are happy, album is delivered done, [00:22:30] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:22:31] Ana Pastoria: and my business just doesn't matter. And that, that is something that I would love to add to my workflow. [00:22:40] Challenges with Social Media and Automation --- [00:22:45] Ana Pastoria: Just post on Instagram, uh, create a reel, uh, block. [00:22:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I, I think word of mouth will always win the day, [00:22:49] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:22:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~Um, ~for what I've noticed for my own, and I know,~ um,~ as you know, I focus on proposals. much that's it, right? what I've noticed [00:23:00] is every single client is either word of mouth or Google. Literally in an organic Google search. 'cause I don't do ads. I never get anything from social media ever. ~Um,~ [00:23:11] Ana Pastoria: Yeah, but what I mean, social media, I also mean website, blog, whatever. I, I do nothing. [00:23:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, [00:23:19] Ana Pastoria: I do nothing. It's, uh, it's sad. It's like I don't work. ~Um, ~when people go and they're like, oh, last time she shot a wedding was in 2022. Well, actually I had like 50, but yeah. [00:23:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I wonder if what you need is not necessarily having to post often yourself, but rather some sort of automation in place to do it for you. [00:23:41] Ana Pastoria: Yeah, [00:23:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: there's lots of tools that can do it for you. [00:23:44] Ana Pastoria: no, my, my, the problem is I still have to choose one photo, and I am emotionally involved with the wedding. So for me, the best photo is that one because, you know, look at the face of that grandmother looking at. [00:24:00] And then someone else will come and say like, no, what that, that's a bad photo. What, what are you talking about? And then, uh, someone else, the, the bride and groom will prefer a different photo. Uh, sometimes I, I, I, I even ask my clients, tell me your favorite photo and why. ~Um.~ [00:24:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You know what? I think you could do the photo that you think is the best for emotional reasons that others may not. you structure your, your, your Instagram posts and whatnot in that way, doing it as emotionally driven instead of [00:24:32] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. Yeah. But then for the other people, it may not be as emotional because they weren't there. They won't understand. [00:24:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: but at the same time, they might understand the fact that you are an emotionally driven wedding photographer. [00:24:47] Ana Pastoria: Oh, I am, I, I am an emotionally driven person. [00:24:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:24:52] Ana Pastoria: Full stop. I just, I, emotion is my jam. [00:24:56] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's right. ~Um, ~yeah, I, I think, I [00:25:00] think that there's ways that, that, that you could do it. Like for example,~ um,~ one tool that I use for social media in particular, 'cause it allows me to be very hands off, is missing letter. ~Um, ~I can give it a blog article from 10 years ago and say, post this over the next year. And it automatically figures out my schedule, picks the images from the blog article. It up with the snippets and I don't have to do anything. [00:25:24] Ana Pastoria: Okay. We'll have to circle back to this later. I, yeah. [00:25:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. There's, there's, uh, there's, there's things that, that could help for sure. But, [00:25:34] Ana Pastoria: Again, I need to put a workflow in place for that. [00:25:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. Yeah. I have one more question for you and,~ um,~ I, I'm. I'm interested to hear your answer, but I think those who fit this enjoy the answer even more than me 'cause I'm a dude. [00:25:58] Ana Pastoria: Oh. [00:25:59] Advice for New Photographers from Minority Groups --- [00:25:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: my [00:26:00] question to you, my last question to you if you had to give advice to new photographer coming into the industry that is female. Or someone in the, uh, lgbtq plus community, what would it be? Somebody just starting their business. [00:26:26] Ana Pastoria: Yeah, so I'm, I'm incredibly proud to be part of a few minorities. Uh, I am a woman in a male dominated area. Uh, I am not white. ~Um, ~I am not straight. I is, yeah. So this is. This is very important for me. This is actually something that is very important. ~Um, ~ [00:26:57] Dealing with Discrimination in the Industry --- [00:26:57] Ana Pastoria: I have felt discrimination several [00:27:00] times,~ um,~ in, in this area of work. ~Um, ~I have had a client, uh, in an interview say, are you Indian? I was like, well, my family, well, I don't work with Indians. I was like, oh, okay. Bye. I don't work with racists. ~Um. ~I, I have had clients,~ um,~ message me after I posted some content, which doesn't happen often, but I posted content and they were like, I cannot believe you posted two women kissing. I was like, have you met me? Like, what? What's going on? [00:27:33] Importance of Transparency and Values --- [00:27:37] Ana Pastoria: So what what was very important for me was also,~ um,~ a shift that I had to make on my own business was,~ um,~ make it in. Extremely transparent of who I am and what I defend. So I I have a form, okay? I have a form that some people hate, uh, as soon as they hire me. So first you [00:28:00] go on my website, you see dogs, you see queer, you see plus size. You see different races. Skin tones. I don't love the word race, but you, you see, you know, diversity, you see people, you see love, you see fun. ~Um, ~you don't just see the skinny white, vogue couple. Uh, that is amazing. I love them as well. I just love everyone equally. ~Um, ~and I especially love shooting people that are not the skinny white couple and that have, that don't feel that comfortable on their skin because they're, they've been told at some point in their lives that they were worth less than someone else. ~Um, ~I am, I've been told so many times that I'm worth less. [00:29:00] Than a white person or than a man, or then a, a straight person or that. It just, it's something that is really difficult for me to accept. ~Um, ~so I created a form as I was saying, uh, and this form literally says, okay,~ um,~ are you pro-gay marriage? Uh, or no? Are you against gay marriage? Are you against the right of choice? Are you against women in power? Are you against,~ um, ~immigrants working in your country? Like immigrants, not illegals, just people from other countries. ~Um, ~are you,~ um,~ against this, against that? And then at the end I say, okay, if you click yes to any of these questions. Please find yourself another photographer. I have gotten a few emails of people very mad at this. Like, you are discriminating. Well, I'm discriminating against people [00:30:00] who discriminate, so I really don't lose any sleep over it. ~Um, ~but I just really want to be extremely transparent in my work and I also want to protect my mental health. In a way that I don't have to actually, because I'm a destination wedding server, Imagen going across the globe to shoot, uh, a wedding of people who don't accept anything or something about me. Okay? That's just. Wrong. It's not the kind of people I want to give my energy, uh, my love and pour my soul into. So, ~um, ~so I decided that this was something that was very important for me, and it's something that I, I really, truly advise people to do, uh, especially if they're starting out. So that they don't become burnout and sick of this job, uh, because you really have to be very passionate to shoot weddings. It's, it's very, it's very tiring. Uh, you really have to love what you do. Otherwise [00:31:00] there are other things you can shoot because weddings are long and they're once in a lifetime events. Or if you're like me, six in a lifetime events, but you know. Quick parenthesis to explain that I got married six times to the same person, so hence six in a lifetime still. ~Um, ~once in a lifetime event. ~Um, ~and the pressure is on. So it's, it's, it's a very delicate, ~um. ~And responsible, uh, job. And if, if you are not fully comfortable with it or happy with it, then uh, you won't last long in the industry. So, to, to make sure that you do, you have to just embrace who you want to work with, define your, your target audience, and just be very mindful about the things. You post, say, and do, uh, to, [00:32:00] to protect yourself. [00:32:01] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, I, I think,~ um, ~if you were to photograph a couple, again, hypothetical situation, if you were to photograph a couple that was. Straight white couple, right? [00:32:15] Ana Pastoria: Hmm. [00:32:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And you didn't ask the questions that you do ask your, you know, potential clients in that form. And you got to the wedding and you noticed there's not one other skin tone here besides white, [00:32:34] Ana Pastoria: Well, that has happened a lot. [00:32:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: But like this, if you got there and there was this vibe of. You know, there's that underlying racism there or something happening, right. And you didn't, you didn't notice ahead of time. I think that would impact the work you produce. 'cause in the back of your mind, you'd be thinking about that the whole time. [00:32:58] Ana Pastoria: I can actually answer [00:33:00] this very, very, very well because that has happened to me. ~Um, ~I shot a wedding. Uh, the bride hired me through Instagram, where I am incredibly transparent as well. The only thing I post on Instagram are stories. About L-G-B-T-Q, community, anti-racism, et cetera. So she did see my stories. Uh, this was preformed by the way. Yeah, this was before I, I did the forum,~ um,~ and before I restructured my website to be as transparent. ~Um, ~so the bride hired me. She was a sweetheart. I loved her. I get to the wedding. And,~ um,~ so it's me, my black videographer, and my gay second shooter, like, not, not gay, just extremely gay. ~Um, ~extremely exuberant and, [00:34:00] and me, Asian woman in charge. We get there and we look at the table names, and the table names were all suggestive of the fascist era in Portugal, and all of them were extreme right wing and they vote for our. Almost fascist party. And I even have a tattoo that says No to sexism, no to racism, no to, to,~ um,~ disable and no to homophobia, and a guest asked me to cover that specific tattoo. My work on that day, I can 100% tell you it sucked. Not only my mind was, should we stay? Should we go? Are we going to be like sacrificed? [00:35:00] Are they going to make an example out of this? Why did I bring my friends into this? Why did I bring my colleagues? Why didn't I know this? So that I could get a team of straight white people to come with me, and at the end of the day, the father had to pay. Because they wanted to pay in cash on the day, and the father just went up to the DJ and said, I noticed you're her friend. You are their friend. He was like, yeah, can I pay you for their services? And my straight white DJ was like, no. And the guy just, I was, I was looking at this happened. Okay. And the guy just. And he goes to my videographer and he goes like, okay, I want to pay you because black is less bad than gay [00:35:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Apparently. Okay. [00:35:53] Ana Pastoria: on his mind. I dunno. And I pay you. And he was like, no, that's with her. That's with the boss [00:36:00] there. And he was like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to give her the money. Can you just count it? He was like, no. No, you have to give her the money because I, I, I, I'm not even touching it. It's, and he comes up to me and he is like, here's the money. I want you to count it in front of me. I was like, sure that I was going to do that anyways. And I was like, yeah, but I want your colleague to come over here. Not my videographer, my DJ. They're dj. That was my friend. So I actually is one of my good friends, so I don't mind, but what the hell. [00:36:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, this, [00:36:44] Ana Pastoria: I was like, [00:36:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: this guy a [00:36:46] Ana Pastoria: like, can you come over here please? And I was like, okay, this is, this is not happening. That was the day I decided, okay, I'm creating a form. I'm making it like super clear. This cannot happen. This is not acceptable, [00:37:00] and I postponed, I was never, never as late to deliver a wedding as I I was, that one, I could not pick up those photos. [00:37:11] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, I could Imagen. I wouldn't want to go through those. Oh, [00:37:15] Ana Pastoria: I, I didn't want to. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't feel like it, I wasn't inspired. I, I felt. I in my bones that anything I was going to do with it, it would suck. The photos suck. They're like the worst photos I've ever taken. I've taken better photos with a high fever than I did, being uncomfortable with how people think. [00:37:43] Impact of Mental State on Work Quality --- [00:37:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: like some, your mental state can sometimes impact your work, your creative work way more than your physical [00:37:50] Ana Pastoria: Oh, a lot. Yeah. ~Um, ~the, so a few days after my grandfather died, I had a wedding and I was in a very depressive stage. The [00:38:00] wedding was amazing, people were amazing. Everything was amazing. ~Um, ~my work on that specific day is so different than my regular. Work because I, I was so, I was dark. Okay. Inside. So all of my photos are like exploring the little bit of light that comes in, and usually I'm just like, bam, light. I love light. Just all the light. Just let's go. And that one was the opposite, but it, it was still great. It was still, uh, great. I mean. For me, obviously, if I didn't like my, uh, the way I, I do my, my thing, I, I would be lying. Right. ~Um, ~but yeah, but that, that wedding, it, it just sucked. And then the bride was like, yeah, we don't have a lot of photos of the two of us because I, I wasn't even comfortable like directing, asking them to, to leave to do some photos. I, I wasn't comfortable. [00:39:00] The whole day was just a mess for me. ~Um. ~As soon as I, we realized that people weren't going to dance. I, I never left a wedding that early. I was like, nothing's happening. So you know what? We're going to go, okay. Are you sure you don't need us? So bye. And I was like, run guys. Run. Let's run to the car. [00:39:20] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Get. [00:39:21] Ana Pastoria: ~Um, ~I know, I'm sorry. This is going to be a very political, ~um. ~And I know not everyone's going to agree me. I know a lot of people do not shoot L-G-B-T-Q weddings. A lot of people don't. ~Um, ~you know, but okay, this is me. Okay. I'm sorry if I'm, I, I'm an extremely political person. ~Um, ~and though I do think that work should not be political,~ um,~ work should also be comfortable. [00:39:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. [00:39:48] Ana Pastoria: For you. So there are some lines that for me are non breakable Okay. And non-usable. Uh, so if you're someone I don't want to work with, I'm, I'm not going to work with [00:40:00] you because if I, if you don't have to believe exactly the same things, but you have to respect them. [00:40:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I, and there's certain things that, yes, part of it might be political, but,~ um,~ like I'm, I'm not a political person at all, but I look at it just as values. have my values, I. And I'm not going to put myself in a situation that goes against my values. Right? [00:40:24] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:40:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: uh, and so I, I think you could look at it,~ um,~ you could look at it as a political thing. You could not look at it as a political thing. [00:40:35] Ana Pastoria: Yeah. [00:40:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: the end of the day, I think it, it comes down to values, right? You have, you have your values,~ um,~ and I think it's good for. Your mental and physical state to stand by those values. [00:40:46] Ana Pastoria: Yes, 1000%. [00:40:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: by your values, and I think you're doing a good job at it. And, [00:40:53] Ana Pastoria: Thank you. [00:40:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: ~um, ~and I, you know, I, I'm so, I'm so grateful that,~ um,~ we able to do this and you're able to share. Your personal [00:41:00] stories. and I know that you get so emotional when you talk about these things, so, [00:41:05] Ana Pastoria: I do. [00:41:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: saw, so, ~um, ~you know, thank you. Thank you for sharing it. [00:41:09] Final Thoughts and Where to Find Me --- [00:41:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And,~ um,~ Uh, do you wanna share,~ um,~ where, again, we'll link to in the show notes, but if, for those who are listening,~ um,~ where can everybody find you? [00:41:19] Ana Pastoria: Can, can I swear? [00:41:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: No. [00:41:21] Ana Pastoria: No. If you wanna see my show of socials, um, is, um, I'm Ana Pastoria everywhere. It's on Instagram, my website, uh, Facebook. And that is it, because that, that, that's the only, I, I do not own a TikTok. I'm not good at, I, I mean, I have rad dance moves. I've perfected them over the years and I am. Partially Indian. So of course I have red dance moves, not TikTok one, so not coordinated, and you do not want to see them. So I do not have [00:42:00] a TikTok. I know TikTok is not only for dancing, by the way, but I'm old. So I do not have a TikTok. I do not have, uh, I, I do have threads. I think I've been there like twice. ~Um, ~I love redditch, but that's not a really social platform for you to see my, my work, only to see my opinions. That are a lot and very strong. ~Um, ~but,~ um,~ yeah, Ana Pastoria everywhere and, uh, do, do like my, my pages because you know, my ego needs to be massaged even though I don't post anything. [00:42:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Hey, thank you Ana. ~Um, ~and, uh, yeah, I, I appreciate you as always. [00:42:38] Ana Pastoria: Thank you. Appreciate you as well. ​ [00:43:00]